I despair of the human race i really do!

Discussion in 'Digital SLR' started by ian lincoln, Feb 11, 2006.

  1. ian lincoln

    ian lincoln Guest

    Was invited a couple of weeks ago to photo my nephew at his rugby club. All
    arranged for tomorrow. Cancelled cos someone turned up the week before with
    a camera and the usual 'paedophile with camera' hysteria kicked in. They're
    playing rugby for gods sake they'll all be covered in mud in ten minutes how
    erotic is that?
    ian lincoln, Feb 11, 2006
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  2. ian lincoln

    Dave Guest

    I can understand the parent's hysteria since I work for law enforcement and
    have worked cases where someone was "just taking pictures" and it was much
    more than that.

    I wouldn't cancel your invite. Let others know why your there (nephew) and
    shoot away. If you don't feel comfortable about what other parents might be
    thinking, then make sure you shoot just your nephew.

    I have photographed children in Scouts, on school field trips, at parties,
    etc., and I make sure the parents know who I am and why I'm shooting. Most
    of the time I supply a photo CD for those families I talk with. After a
    while, everyone knows I'm "the photo guy" and they expect me around.

    Dave, Feb 11, 2006
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  3. I was ask by my church to do pictures of the Christian Child
    Development classes at work for a church newsletter. When I got
    there, the teachers had to take out all the children whose parents
    hadn't signed releases to allow them to be photographed. I would say
    over half had not signed the releases.

    I thought it was utterly insane. It was for their own church's

    "A combat photographer should be able to make you see the
    color of blood in black and white"

    David Douglas Duncan
    Speaking on why in Vietnam
    he worked only in black and white
    John A. Stovall, Feb 11, 2006

  4. Don't assume that parents actually saw the notice and refused to sign it.
    Being a parent of 2, 9 years apart, I've seen it at both the grade and high
    school levels. The kid forgets, the parents forget, the teacher forgets,
    etc. In my experience Its usually only a small number of paranoid nuts who
    wouldn't allow Jr to be photographed. Most people don't mind and actually
    love to have some of the pics when you're done. I can't tell you how many
    time my wife and I here, "It so nice of you guys to do this!"
    Robert R Kircher, Jr., Feb 12, 2006
  5. ian lincoln

    Sheldon Guest

    I teach some classes at the local community college. With all the hoopla
    surrounding teachers and students these days I'm afraid to brush up against
    any of them for fear of a lawsuit.
    Sheldon, Feb 12, 2006
  6. ian lincoln

    C J Southern Guest

    I have to wonder just how far one should let this kind of thing go. For
    example, should all men be considered rapists just because "they have the

    I'm wondering if it would help to put on a bright orange safety jacket with
    the word "MEDIA" emplasoned across the back - making it look more official.
    Have a pocket full of business cards that can be handed out to any parent
    who questions what you're doing there. I mean to say, being suspicious in
    this day and age is probably a good thing - but I'd also like to think it
    normal for those suspicions to melt away once someone has asked the right
    questions, and been satisfied that you are an industry professional.
    C J Southern, Feb 12, 2006
  7. ian lincoln

    Colin D Guest

    Western societies are on a destructive roller coaster with all this PC
    nonsense. I see in Queensland, Australia now, they are issuing 'blue
    cards' to people who have anything to do with children - photogs, bus
    drivers, school caretakers, sunday school teachers, etc, - even school
    crossing supervisors! These cards are issued only after a police check
    into the applicant's background. I don't know what the penalties are
    for not having one, but job adverts for positions that interact with
    kids specify that applicants must hold a blue card. Have a look at:


    I guess photogs will soon be restricted to no photography of any persons
    at all, and landscapes, animals, and inanimate objects will be the only
    allowable subject matter - as long as it doesn't clash with somebody's
    ideas of 'security'.

    They say that democracy has within itself the seeds of its own
    destruction, I guess meaning that democratic societies can harbor
    enemies of the system. I think the real seeds of destruction are the
    fanatical pressure groups, various people and committees with axes to
    grind, even governments who, while not openly opposing democracy, insist
    that their views and ideas are acted upon to the detriment of the rest
    of the people.

    The obvious example of this destructive trend is the spreading belief
    that all people with a camera are potential paedophiles, definitely
    enhanced by the advent of camera phones. There are other examples, like
    banning advertising pictures of children modelling underwear;
    fluoridation of water supplies; compulsory wearing of seat belts in
    vehicles; compulsory security fencing of home swimming pools - including
    the blow-up plastic pools that hold about a foot of water (New Zealand
    law, despite the fact that open drains, ponds and lakes in public parks
    etc are not required to be fenced at all); attempted banning of certain
    words, like 'manhole' (required is 'person-hole', 'mankind'; use of s/he
    or she/he or he/she to eliminate perceived sexual discrimination, etc,
    and many others. All of these restrictions have come about through
    pressure from vocal minority groups, and not general consensus.

    I haven't any ideas on how to reverse this dangerous trend. I guess it
    will end with some kind of anarchy when the PC movement finally
    oversteps the bounds of what the man in the street will accept.

    It's at the stage now where I feel guilty if I photograph my
    grand-daughters, so the photographic record of our family has few
    pictures of the girls, those we do have have been taken by my wife.

    Colin D.
    Colin D, Feb 12, 2006
  8. ian lincoln

    C J Southern Guest

    I've got a feeling that nothing is ever going to change until people are
    forced to take responsibility for their own actions. If I only ever manage
    to teach my kids that "actions have consequences" I'll die a happier man.
    C J Southern, Feb 12, 2006
  9. Amen, imagine if we could, after teaching children that maxim, elighten
    public policy makers (on both side of the aisle) as well
    Paul Richardson, Feb 12, 2006
  10. ian lincoln

    C J Southern Guest

    Yeah - that's the irony of the world we seem to live in these days - people
    don't get to feel the consequences of their actions, so they don't learn
    from their mistakes. Think about it - how many times do you have to stick
    your hand into a 115 / 230 volt socket to work out it's not a good idea? -
    and yet when you get some thug who goes out of his way to beat someone up
    and ends up only getting a $150 fine (which he doesn't pay), tell me again
    how much he's learned?

    What would politicians do about it? - they're too busy trying to increase
    their power and bolster their own egos - getting as "PC" as possible whilst
    they usurp the livings of those who actually earn the $$$.
    C J Southern, Feb 12, 2006
  11. ian lincoln

    JC Dill Guest

    Don't back out! Go, take photos, and make sure everyone knows A) that
    you were ASKED to take photos and B) that you are there to take photos
    of your nephew. You have a right to do this, and more importantly we
    all need to do everything we can to keep this hysteria from stopping
    innocent and legitimate activities like taking photos of a relative's
    child playing sports.

    The other suggestion about wearing a shirt with a label is a great
    one. I'm going to get shirts that say "event photographer" to wear
    when I do photos at events.

    JC Dill, Feb 12, 2006
  12. ian lincoln

    Mike Coon Guest

    Have you never seen shots on TV of ladies mud-wrestling? I presume some
    people do find it arousing, like over-the-top wet t-shirts. Some people only
    have to hear of someting kinky to assume that everyone (else) is "at it"...

    Mike Coon, Feb 12, 2006
  13. ian lincoln

    ian lincoln Guest

    Well personally i would have gone regardless and anyone who complained would
    have been referred to my brother in law and nephew. Handing out cds
    aftewards may even be a source of revenue. My sister on the other hand
    panicked and forbid me to turn up at all.
    ian lincoln, Feb 12, 2006
  14. Why not just go the whole hog and get Star-of-David's on the sleeves and
    "Jude!" across the chest in blood red?
    Kennedy McEwen, Feb 12, 2006
  15. It is still within *your* rights to be there and to take photographs of
    the even - assuming it is clearly visible from a public area, even if it
    is on private land owned by the rugby club. Similarly, wearing or
    carrying material that could be construed as identifying you as some
    sort of event official, especially when you have merely been asked by
    someone other than the event organisers to be there, is forfeiting your
    freedom to take photographs in any case and may, in itself, be a genuine
    offence, which would certainly not help your case.

    Old Benjy Franklin's words are still as true today as they were 200
    years ago: "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little
    temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.".
    Kennedy McEwen, Feb 12, 2006
  16. I also carry business cards, and if asked am very forthcoming regarding
    why I am photographing the event if asked by a parent or adult present.
    Paul Richardson, Feb 12, 2006
  17. There is nothing wrong with anyone asking you, just as there is nothing
    wrong with you answering.

    However, there is something very wrong with a PC situation in which the
    rabid perverted fears of a few encourages otherwise honest people to
    take actions which would make them guilty of misrepresentation simply to
    engage in activities which they have a perfectly legal right to.
    Kennedy McEwen, Feb 12, 2006
  18. ian lincoln

    Sheldon Guest

    While there are a lot of good thoughts and ideas in this thread, if you are
    in the US at a public place on public property you are fair game for any
    photographer, as long as they don' t use the photo for commercial purposes.
    Then they would need a release. Like the time I skipped school to go to
    opening day at the ballpark and me and my friend's pictures were on the
    front page of the paper! While it was embarrassing, there wasn't anything
    we could do about it.
    Sheldon, Feb 14, 2006
  19. ian lincoln

    eawckyegcy Guest

    Increasingly I find it more insane that newspapers and the media in
    general are allowed to profit -- handsomely and utterly scot free -- in
    the sale of their wares while using the images of completely and
    trivially identifiable people and property without a hint of
    permission, while it is strictly forbidden to pull exactly the same
    stunt while you are selling tampons. Even more scandalous is that
    these media companies claim a _right_ to these images they are _given_
    special dispensations to publish sans the usual release. What's the
    logic in this again?

    So when you report that a church newsletter is abiding by common sense
    and decency, I can't find much to complain about.
    eawckyegcy, Feb 14, 2006
  20. ian lincoln

    eawckyegcy Guest

    His permission was rescinded, remember?
    If the "rugby club" says "no pictures", who are you to argue with them?
    For example, if I took my EF 500/4 and 1D2 into the "Roger's Centre"
    to take pictures of the Toronto Blue Jays, you think they'll accept a
    "BUT IT'S MY RIGHT!!!" argument? Or do you think will they just point
    out the Rules and eject me?
    I think you need to realize that private organizations and individuals
    have the ability to say "no", and bullocks to you if you disagree. I
    suggest you bring a long, long, lens if this club has venue control.
    Yes, it is well known that pedophiles are completely incapable of
    getting special T-shirts made up saying "event photographer", nor is it
    possible for them to claim they are just there to take pictures of
    nephews. I think these are corollaries of the four-colour theorem, no?
    eawckyegcy, Feb 14, 2006
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