I Miss my Viewfinder !

Well I've put about 1,500 pics thru my
new camera, and I still miss my viewfinder.
A viewfinder was one of my must-have bells,
along with AA bateries, 10X, and so forth.
I got all my bells except the viewfinder.
(I got the $200 Canon sx120is with three-inch
screen and the CHDK supercharger freeware hack.)

I rationalized, Well the new technology is
probably much brighter. (After all, my old
digicam was more than five years old, one young
clerk never even heard of its SmartMedia card!)
Technically, I'm sure it must be brighter.
But perception-wise, (and what else matters?)
no, it is not. It works well inside and
is still a dog shooting wildflowers and such
outside in direct sunlight. And it's still
OK for shooting family and vacation snapshots
and vistas outside. (And other general things
that I'm VERY happy with...Good Camera!)

Bottom line? I'd do it again facing the same
choices, but I'd gladly pay $50 more for
a viewfinder. It's kinda a biggy in my book.

But the industry doesn't see it that way.
And sadly I contributed to that....
========


http://preview.tinyurl.com/68aasjl
to photographyblog.com....

Panasonic G3 Question and Answer
Published: May 12, 2011

....a month prior to the May 12th release of the
Panasonic Lumix DMC-G3,...

JM: “The factory is saying that the CSC (Compact System
Camera) market will be bigger than the SLR market by 2013.
I think probably in Japan that will happen by 2012 – but
obviously this is a global view. That means the SLR market
will contract, something like a 30% reduction. But we do see
that, while the compact system camera will be a substitute
for SLR, because it will bring in so many more customers the
overall market will expand. [For the purpose of tracking
sales] we've split mirror-less CSC into two categories: with
viewfinder and without viewfinder. In Asia what they're
finding is a real explosion of the [Panasonic] GF product,
the [Sony] NEX product, where the miniaturisation of the
camera is what's important.
The fact that there's no viewfinder isn't as important
to start with, whereas in Europe and America – and
especially the UK – people still love shooting with a
viewfinder.
Where they're saying globally the smallest category will be
viewfinder product, actually in the UK – and we've seen it
in sales of our G1, G10, G2 and GH range – people still love
shooting with a viewfinder.”

Question: At the moment you only have one CSC product
without a viewfinder (the Lumix DMC-GF2). Does this mean
that you will change that emphasis?

JM: “As a business this is clearly where we see potential.
.....


Question: The original target market for CSC was people who
wanted to upgrade from a compact to a DSLR. But there are
now also a lot of people selling their DSLRs and buying a
compact system camera instead?

JM: “I think that's definitely right. Every time we do a
promotion in the UK we can capture customer data – we did a
survey after our Christmas 2010 sales promotion and, of the
400 people that came back with a response, 50% of them
classed themselves as a novice – as in they'd never had a
SLR before – but the other 50% said I'm an enthusiast or pro
and I'm either replacing or adding to my kit. So we've
shaped our advertising in the UK around that too. With the
G1 and the G2 we ....

....Question: Do you think CSC could help to kill off the
DSLR at the entry level?

............snips

..... We do actually do very well with the 40+ age group,
people don't want the big and bulky lenses that they didn't
mind lugging around when they were 30-something. They don't
want or need to be flashy with the big kit. My target issue
with the marketing is to increase our sales in the 30 to 40
bracket where that's a big opportunity. Those people have
been shopping quite heavily based on trusted brands.
Everyone will recommend a Canon or Nikon, just as with
travel zoom everyone will recommend a Panasonic TZ because
it's strongly established. It's recommendations that are
driving the sales of DSLRs the same way they are with the
TZ. The job is to get ourselves onto the shopping list with
the G series and grow that awareness. We're having people
say about the GF that it totally reinvigorated their street
photography –

 

As much as that SX120is serves its purpose at that price point very
well, knowing that you were more comfortable with a viewfinder, I would
have sought out an option with one.

An LCD can be totally useless in bright overhead Sun, or with the Sun
directly behind you.
I find the arms length shooting position for the current breed of
compact cameras somewhat silly, and only occasionally useful.
Consequently, the compact I own to supplement my D300s, is a Canon
G11(now G12), and I had also considered a Nikon P7000.
My G11 replaced a FijiFilm E900 which also had an OVF, performed well,
but had a rather klunky UI which discouraged me from using it much.

Both of those cost somewhat more than the additional $50 you were
prepared to pay, but IMO the extra cost is well worth it.

 

I have always believed that the camera is an extension of the eye. You
compose with your eyes and having a viewfinder helps your eyes
normalise the scene in which you are viewing. Having a mini tv screen
hovering several inches in front of you when trying to compose an image
is heavily distracting. Don't get me wrong, some flip-out LCD screens
can be helpful in situations where getting your eye to a viewfinder can
be awkward, i.e. groundlevel macro. However, these flip-out screens
should be in addition to a viewfinder.

MC

 

I don't. Simply because that is the way I take pictures and I won't buy a
camera without a viewfinder.

 

Another feature of the much maligned P&S
[Canon SX30-IS]
Multi-axial flip out TFT screen
plus an EVF to suit your needs.

 

Nice. However, I wouldn't label the SX30is a "P&S," and you are the
first to even bring that label up in this thread.
The OP, Doug Bashford, is complaining about the lack of viewfinder,
OVF, or EVF, for his COMPACT SX120is, a "superzoom compact". So you
are comparing apples with oranges. The SX30is is certainly not a
compact. Though I suspect he was sold by the 10X zoom capability first.
Hence my suggestion of a G11, G12, P7000. If need be, he could go to
the Canon A1200is, but he would be sacrificing some of that zoom range
for the viewfinder.

If he was looking for something a little larger he could go to the
SX30is you suggested.

 

I was using the term that gets applied to cameras with non-removable
lens quite often, in addition to superzoom etc. I do realize that the SX30is
is a top of the line 'ZLR' and sometimes gets referred to as a bridge camera.
FWIW: from years of 35mm film photography,
I'm habitually more used to the EVF style
even as the Bronica, Zenit, and other TLRs viewed from above.
Occasionally I use the flip out screen if trying to compose a hand held shot
with arms extended upward over a crowd.
Some years back I (just to pick a nit) explained that my then Canon S1-IS
was Digital, had a Single Lens, and Reflexive (electronic) viewing,
therefore was a true DSLR <g>

 

Please don't suggest the P7000, even in the context of supporting
Nikon, as it is too slooooow. G11 and G12 are much better. G11 - if
you can find one - sells at about the same price as the P7000. G12 is
just a few dollars more. Both are much faster to use than the P7000.

Personally, I prefer my G9 to all three of them, but that's because I
value the extra 2 MP (12 MP against 10 MP) and the longer reach of the
zoom lens, 200mm against 140mm (35mm film equivalent FL). I just paid
$200 to have it serviced and a new main board fitted - that should
tell you how much I like it. ;-)

 

I have the same lens+sensor package in my A650is, which is a non raw enabled
(among some other things) G9.
Great camera, great useability and its got a viewfinder!
I wish it had 10megapixies instead of 12, because noise is there even at ISO
100.
NO WAY I'm going to sell it, but I'd really like a bit less noise.

 

Agree. And I need an optical viewfinder, not an electronic one.

Try shooting a moving object in continuous mode without an optical VF.
Can't be done unless you get lucky.

There may be some EVF's that don't black out between shots in
continuous, but I'm not sure.

 

In most cases I agree with that. But the EVF in my G1 is terrific, and I
wouldn't trade it for an optical one even if it were possible. But that's a
1.4-megapixel EVF -- which makes all the difference.

Actually I'm not sure about that in the case of the G1, either. I just don't
have occasion to use continuous much, and haven't at all with this
particular camera.

 

A viewfinder is an advantage if it's an optical viewfinder, because it makes
it easier to check focus. Otherwise it's a waste of hardware. Electronic
viewfinders are a waste of time.

 

Not true. Optical viewfinders in most cases are relatively miserable for
checking focus (an exception is in macro work, where the shallow DOF helps a
lot), unless you've changed the screen to one with a focusing aid. The
electronic viewfinder in a G1 or G2 makes it far easier to check focus, by
offering 5x or 10x magnification. You won't get that in any optical
viewfinder. It's even better than a split-image rangefinder, which very few
DSLRs have anyway.

For *most* EVFs you're right, insofar as they are even worse than optical
VFs as far as use in focusing is concerned. That's only because of their
horrible resolution, typically around 200K dots. But try any camera in the
G1/G2 family and you'll see how beautifully easy focusing by viewfinder can
really be.

 

If that were indeed something I needed to do, I would try it. Quite happy
with the EVF on my Kodak P850.

 

SNIP

Can you not get a separate one as an optional extra? I think some video
cameras have them, Leica do noddy ones that sit in the hot shoe (for ~$250)
and Cineroid do a ~$600 electronic one for cameras with HDMI out (Sony,
Pany, Canon etc.).

 

Many are; some are quite functional. No complaints here with my kodak
P850 - but yes, I have seen many that are so damned 'blocky' I could
never use them.

 

You obviously don't shoot in bright light.

Regards,

Eric Stevens

 

I still have my 42 year old Yashica Electro 35, which is a proper
rangefinder. With the optional wide angle, it requires the hot-shoe VF
to show the FOV markers.
Unfortunately there is no focus coupling through that VF, so checking
focus and FOV becomes a "head-dance." For the most part I just used the
rangefinder.
< http://homepage.mac.com/lco/filechute/Yash-Electro35-0360.jpg >

 

The only problem is that optical viewfinders of non-SLRs suck horribly,
and even many (most?) optical viewfinders of APS-C DSLRs are not
particularly good.

 

Mega-subpixel (i.e. red, green and blue counted separately)?
As in "a full-HD monitor (1920x1080) has about 6 mega-subpixel"?

-Wolfgang