ideas wanted

Discussion in 'Amateur Video Production' started by Brian, Apr 27, 2013.

  1. Brian

    Brian Guest

    I'm editing an old movie of a wedding, recorded on DV tape. At the time I
    recorded the wedding there were less DVD players about so it was put on VHS
    tape for the people getting married. I'm hoping to improve on it using the
    features of Sony Vegas Pro. Colour correction and slight sharpening has
    helped the video a lot.

    One problem I have is that I had the camera on a tripod pointing at the
    couple getting married. When singing occurred I released the camera from
    the tripod, stood up and recorded the visitors singing behind me. I when
    replaced the camera back on the tripod. Camera shake when the camera was
    was released and when it was put back on the tripod is a problem. What
    makes it worst is that I can't cut out the shaky bits as this would case a
    disruption to the singing.
    I tried the stabilizer option and it did its best but it does not solve the
    problem. I thought of freezing the view of the people getting married
    before doing a jump to the visitors singing to avoid video sound sync
    problems.
    I tried doing a crossfade in the video and sound which seems to work better
    for classical music but in this case it is too noticeable when I tried
    this.

    Does anyone have ideas of getting around this problem. My photography
    stills were lacking many years ago when it was recorded so I don't have any
    suitable cut aways to use. As everyone was singing there would have been no
    suitable cut aways to record such as people watching the service.
     
    Brian, Apr 27, 2013
    #1
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  2. Other than what you suggested, the only option I can think of
    is to keep the audio track intact, and if you have ANY usable
    footage that would be appropriate (like audience views, views
    of the location interior, views of the couple and/or officiate
    standing but not saying anything, and maybe even exterior views
    of the building with very few people in it (maybe you could
    acquire generic interior views of interesting parts above where
    people would be and a few exterior views even now to include).
    BTW, I struggled with trying to improve Mini-DV (even very good
    Mini-DV, shot with VX2000s...) sufficiently to convert it to
    4:3 HD resolution, and failed even with several aps designed
    for the purpose, but one method succeeded: converting the
    Mini-DV footage to DVD-format MPEG2 produced footage that
    looked surprisingly good viewed on a good HDTV on which the
    original Mini-DV footage looked TERRIBLE. Maybe editing the
    footage (with improvements) as Mini-DV, then producing a DVD
    would give you what you want. Or, maybe trying the MPEG2
    conversion first, then working on that(?). BTW, another
    option that may work for the cuts (but it would cost more
    footage), is to match at least pitches in the music at the
    cuts, and maybe preferably sung phrases so the vocal parts
    make sense even if they are not right (I've done this, and
    sometimes even successfully...;-). Quick blends at the
    transfer points can be made for the music, with longer ones
    for the visuals...
    --DR
     
    David Ruether, Apr 27, 2013
    #2
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  3. Brian

    HerHusband Guest

    One problem I have is that I had the camera on a tripod pointing at
    Leave the audio track untouched and you won't have any sound sync issues.
    Clip the video where you went handheld and stabilize that. I would probably
    use crossfades between the tripod and handheld shots, so you don't get any
    abrupt scene changes.

    If you need to cut out the begging or end where it gets too shaky, maybe
    you could use some artsy slow motion or something to fill the gap?

    Anthony Watson
    www.mountain-software.com/about.htm
     
    HerHusband, Apr 27, 2013
    #3
  4. My only thought is to freeze the vide just before the vibration starts,
    and similarly propagate the first good frame backwards from where the
    vibration ends.

    Then fade one freeze frame to the other.

    Sort of like this, where L & F are the last good frame of the first part
    and the first good one of the second part:

    Starting with
    xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxLttttttttttttFyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy
    Where xxx is the first part, L the last good frame, ttt the transition,
    and Fyyy...the good second part.

    Make two clips (repeating the above for reference):
    xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxLttttttttttttFyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy
    xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxLLLLLLLLLLLLL
    FFFFFFFFFFFFFyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy

    ^ ..fade .. ^

    Best viewed in fixed-width font :)
     
    Gene E. Bloch, Apr 27, 2013
    #4
  5. Brian

    Brian Guest

    Thanks David.
    I've setup vegas as a DV 4:3 format to accept the DV recording. When
    compiling I'll select a mpeg DVD option. Is that what you were meaning in
    your text?
     
    Brian, Apr 28, 2013
    #5
  6. Brian

    Brian Guest

    Thanks Glen and others for your suggestions to get around the problem.

    Glen, i'm trying to understand what you are suggesting. Do you mean freeze
    frame the video for a few seconds (so he sound does not go out of sync)
    just before the camera shake then have a transition to the next steady part
    of the video?

    I have thought of fading to black just before the camera shake then fading
    from black back to the stead part of the video. If It doesn't look like the
    camera suddenly turned off then it might work.
    The other thought is to have the title of the song displayed on the screen
    to replace the camera shake.

    I feel that the best and easiest is to think of some clever cut away like
    someone suggested. I also like the idea that someone suggested of slowing
    down the video just before the camera shake so the sound does not go out of
    sync. I have one advantage which is that no one standing up at the front of
    the room (the couple getting married etc) is singing so lip sync is not a
    problem.
     
    Brian, Apr 28, 2013
    #6
  7. Yes. It is surprising to me (and mysterious why...) that Mini-DV
    original video that looks so bad on an HDTV can looks so much
    better transferred to a DVD as an MPEG-2 file - but, it can
    almost look good!;-) I haven't tried converting DV-AVI to MPEG-2,
    then exporting it as HD with side bars. I suspect that upsampling
    TVs and DVD players do a better job than I could do manually,
    though... (and that last may have solved the mystery...;-).
    BTW, my last video (which I have been lazy about getting up on
    YouTube) is "FLOLIAGE", with some frame-grabs shown here --
    http://www.donferrario.com/ruether/FLOLIAGE.htm Fun-stuff! 8^)
    --DR
     
    David Ruether, Apr 28, 2013
    #7
  8. Find the title and lyrics of the song and put a graphic up at the beginning
    to cover the first one, then at the end to cover the second one. A scroll
    title would work.

    Gary Eickmeier
     
    Gary Eickmeier, Apr 28, 2013
    #8
  9. Brian

    trusso11783 Guest

    I would not inclucde the song. I would chop the video at the last good
    frame of the bride and groom before you removed the camera from the
    tripod to tape the singers. Chop it again at the 1st good frame when
    you put the camera back on the tripod. Now you have a middle section
    of music with crappy beginning and ending (resulting from moving the
    camera). Using the below legend
    A= couple from tripod
    B= singing with camera movement at both tails
    C= couple again


    AAAAAAAA (fade in) CCCCCCC
    BBBBBBBBBBB(fade to black)

    You do not need to keep every second of any wedding. It would be
    unbearably long and hard to watch. That's why they need to be edited
    down.

    Good luck.

    Tony


    How could transferring miniDV footage to digital look terrible? If you
    use firewire, it is a clone of what is on the tape (which is
    information stored digitally). I just transferred around 20 tapes
    (Digital 8, 8mm, Hi8 - all from the Digital 8 camera) and it looks
    exactly like the recorded tapes. I cannot believe how great tapes from
    1993 look
     
    trusso11783, May 8, 2013
    #9
  10. Brian

    trusso11783 Guest

    Post this on a private youtube video and send me the link. Put one
    minute before and after the tripod movement. I can make it look fine.

    Tony
     
    trusso11783, May 8, 2013
    #10
  11. ?????! ;^)
    YES, Mini-DV looks *EXACYLY* like the original when dubbed from
    the digital original to a digital copy with FireWire (*if* there
    are no major dropouts...), and yes, DV-AVI can look decent on an
    SD TV (or even on a small or 720P HD TV, viewed at a considerable
    distance) - BUT, DV-AVI itself is a VERY flawed medium, with MANY
    inherent image problems (see my article on this, at --
    www.donferrario.com/ruether/vid_pict_characts.htm ). Unfortunately,
    a perfect copy of crap is still crap...!;-) I did find, though,
    that DV-AVI transferred to DVD (oddly) looks better than the
    original (when viewed on a good upsampling HD TV), and it can look
    quite acceptable, even if it is nowhere near the quality of good
    HD original material. Apparently the above processing smoothes
    out much of the ugly aliasing while still retaining most of the
    original level of sharpness...
    --DR
     
    David Ruether, May 8, 2013
    #11
  12. Brian

    Brian Guest

    I did some experimenting with converting mpg video using different formats
    and different video bit rates.
    I came to the concluding that the quality of the end product depends on the
    quality of the source. A high quality video still looks good even at 720 x
    576 (the old Pal VHS format and in some cases even at 640 x 480 resolution
    is still looking good on a 40 inch LCD TV.
    What I don't like is when someone compiles a low resolution picture at a HD
    setting. If I view a video at 1920 x 1080 on YouTube then I expect to see a
    sharper picture. It's like viewing a soft focused video.

    I found that 2 Mbps video rate seems to be the minimum for mp4 and XVID as
    anything lower causes the picture to become digital blocks (can't remember
    the correct word) when the camera is panning a subject.
    I can record onto DVD using my Digital Video Recorder (these recorders
    seemed to have died out as people are using computers to create videos
    these days) from a high quality digital TV source and using quality
    standard speed which fits 2 hours of recording on a single layer DVD I
    still get a good quality picture on playback using a 40 inch LCD TV. The
    resolution of the recording is 720 x 576. If the source had been from a VHS
    tape then there would be a noticeable difference.
    When making a draft copy of a video I'm working on I get Vegas Pro to
    compile it in WMV format at 2 or 3 Mbps and play it back on my 40 inch LCD
    TV.

    Speaking of the quality of video.
    I have a challenge to improve on a video I recorded in 1986 on C-VHS tape
    (this is what the early video cameras used as they recorded using the same
    method to VHS recorders). I noticed that there is a limit on how much you
    can correct the colour, increase the sharpness, etc on a old video
    recording. I think that early video cameras had a limited colour range so
    the colours were not accurate to the real colour being recorded (eg orange
    looked more red). But its a experiment to find out if todays software
    advances can improve on old recordings. In one of the scenes I have a blue
    cast of mountains in the background which I can't seem to remove, even when
    colour correcting the video using Vegas Pro.
     
    Brian, May 9, 2013
    #12
  13. Brian

    Brian Guest

    Thanks for the offer to improve on the shaky video but I need to learn to
    do these things for myself. I have a few ideas from the posts I've received
    that could work.
     
    Brian, May 9, 2013
    #13
  14. Brian

    Brian Guest

    Hi Tony.
    As the video is for the married couple and the wedding is not a long one
    (only one hymn is played) then I prefer to include everything in the video.
    I kept the camera turned on all the time so the sound would not be out of
    sync and so I could capture everything.
     
    Brian, May 9, 2013
    #14
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