Insect In Viewfinder !!

Discussion in '35mm Cameras' started by denis, Sep 28, 2005.

  1. denis

    denis Guest

    My purchase of a Nikon F601 from a dealer on Ebay has gone sour -
    although described as 'Excellent ++'it has arrived looking very shabby
    - I would have been ashamed to offer it for sale. I will be sending it
    back and asking for a refund - fingers crossed!

    The dealer has 97.7% positive feedback - 8127, Neutral 180, negative
    178 in the past 12 months; with hindsight perhaps I wasn't cautious
    enough, giving isufficient thought to the 'only' 2.3% negatives.

    Fortunately I have found another 601 on Ebay offered by a private
    owner(All 90 feedbacks positive) - with a 35-80 Nikkor lens for £55(
    around $99.00 - only £12 more. Having asked for exact details of the
    cosmetics I am assured that it is unmarked; the only negative(ha, ha!)
    factor is that there is a small insect showing in the bottom l/h corner
    of the viewfinder.

    Presumably the insect could only have entered the camera when no lens
    was fitted and could be anywhere between the mirror and viefinder - not
    necessarily in the viewfinder itself.Could this be blown out with
    compressed air? It would be uneconomic to send the camera to a repairer
    and if necessary I can live with the insect but would like to get rid
    of it if I can.

    Denis Boisclair
    Cheshire, UK.

    PS Having been away from this site for some time I am struck by the
    greatly reduced number of posts - obviously many have migrated to
    rec.photo.digital.
     
    denis, Sep 28, 2005
    #1
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  2. denis

    John Fryatt Guest

    Denis,

    Is the insect sharp, i.e. in focus? If so that should mean that it is on
    underside of the focusing screen. With a bit of luck you should be able
    to gently flick it out with a small soft brush. Just take off the lens
    and have a look in there.
    I'd be careful about blasting away with compressed air. Might be ok, but
    if you hi the shutter it might do some damage.

    Re. eBay, I've used it quite a bit, generally with good results. I am
    quite wary though of dealing with anyone with negative feedback. You can
    read them and sometimes get a feel of what's going on. People do leave
    negative feedback vindictively sometimes, or because they are
    unreasonable, but genrally people seem reluctant to give a negative so
    when they do it is for something fairly bad.
     
    John Fryatt, Sep 28, 2005
    #2
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  3. denis

    Annika1980 Guest

    That's the difference between Nikon and Canon.
    With Canon. the bugs are in the software.
    With Nikon, they're in the camera.
     
    Annika1980, Sep 28, 2005
    #3
  4. denis

    The Dave© Guest

    The problem with eBay and feedback is that *not enough* people leave
    negatives, so it's turned into something of a false feel-good
    barometer. Too many people are afraid of receiving retalitory negs,
    and thus ruining their own precious 100% ratings, if they tell the
    truth.

    I agree about reading the comments, though. Sometimes you can tell
    that one party was just unreasonable or pissy. A few don't scare me
    off, but dozens or more, even if a small percentage, does.
     
    The Dave©, Sep 28, 2005
    #4
  5. denis

    John Fryatt Guest

    I agree with you re. feedback. The problem is that if you leave a legit
    negative feedback for someone they can leave an *unjustified*
    retaliatory one for you which, nevertheless, still looks bad on your
    record. You say *precious* ratings but, as we are discussing, these
    things are fairly important to people's reputations if they use eBay much.

    Maybe eBay need to come up with some better mechanism for feedback. I
    don't know what it might be though. If feedback had to be justified then
    manual vetting would be needed and it would eat into eBay's profits.
    Besides, who'd want the job of feedback vetting?
    I've often thoguht that more levels of feedback might help. Rather than
    - good / neutral / bad
    you could have
    - bloody good / fair / ok, but could do better / poor / crap!
    then you can indicate that things weren't quite right even if the txn
    was generally successful.
     
    John Fryatt, Sep 28, 2005
    #5
  6. denis

    Jeff Rife Guest

    John Fryatt () wrote in rec.photo.equipment.35mm:
    One of the big problems is that sellers today rarely leave feedback based
    on the buyer's performance, but rather wait to see what kind of feedback
    they get. In other words, when you pay for an auction using PayPal less
    than 10 minutes after the auction ends, I really think the buyer deserves
    positive feedback right then, since the buyer has lived up to his end of
    the deal, and well.

    Maybe if payment is made using PayPal, eBay should automatically give
    positive feedback to the buyer. Since eBay owns PayPal, and the sites
    are linked, they could conceivably do this. Then, any negative feedback
    from the buyer pretty much has to be based solely on auction performance.
    Very few people will give a negative for absolutely no reason.

    It should also be absolutely trivial for the person that leaves feedback to
    change a negative they left to something else (or a neutral to positive),
    even months after the transaction. This way, a negative isn't really a
    problem for a seller *if* they fix whatever the issue is. But, there
    should be no way to change already-left feedback *to* a negative.

    Last, even with these changes, if you do leave a negative feedback, you
    should be required to leave an extra comment that is at least 1000
    characters long, and this comment is stored on eBay for inspection by
    their dispute people. That way, there will be a detailed explanation of
    what the other person supposedly did wrong. It would also make getting
    that negative removed easy if the explanation was something like the
    letter "X" repeated 1000 times to make the character limit.
    Only negative feedback really needs to be checked, so maybe that would
    make it manageable.

    --
    Jeff Rife | "Because he was human; because he had goodness;
    | because he was moral they called him insane.
    | Delusions of grandeur; visions of splendor;
    | A manic-depressive, he walks in the rain."
    | -- Rush, "Cinderella Man"
     
    Jeff Rife, Sep 28, 2005
    #6
  7. My purchase of a Nikon F601 from a dealer on Ebay has gone sour -
    although described as 'Excellent ++'it has arrived looking very shabby
    - I would have been ashamed to offer it for sale. I will be sending it
    back and asking for a refund - fingers crossed!

    The dealer has 97.7% positive feedback - 8127, Neutral 180, negative
    178 in the past 12 months; with hindsight perhaps I wasn't cautious
    enough, giving isufficient thought to the 'only' 2.3% negatives.

    Fortunately I have found another 601 on Ebay offered by a private
    owner(All 90 feedbacks positive) - with a 35-80 Nikkor lens for £55(
    around $99.00 - only £12 more. Having asked for exact details of the
    cosmetics I am assured that it is unmarked; the only negative(ha, ha!)
    factor is that there is a small insect showing in the bottom l/h corner
    of the viewfinder.

    Presumably the insect could only have entered the camera when no lens
    was fitted and could be anywhere between the mirror and viefinder - not
    necessarily in the viewfinder itself.Could this be blown out with
    compressed air? It would be uneconomic to send the camera to a repairer
    and if necessary I can live with the insect but would like to get rid
    of it if I can.

    Denis Boisclair
    Cheshire, UK.

    Have you tried Boots ?

    I think they sell Inscect Inside

    Steve
    --


    PS Having been away from this site for some time I am struck by the
    greatly reduced number of posts - obviously many have migrated to
    rec.photo.digital.
     
    Biker2 \(Threadstopper\), Sep 29, 2005
    #7
  8. denis

    John Fryatt Guest

    True. The sellers are, of course, reserving their right to leave
    retaliatory feedback. :-(
    That might work, although other payment forms would need to be catered
    for somehow.
    Maybe it could be a rule that seller feedback has to come first? But
    then what if the seller just doesn't respond? Maybe if the seller
    doesn't do anything after a set time then the buyer can do his feedback
    anyway? Starts to get complicated....
    That's good. Makes sense, if the seller makes good efforts to resolve a
    problem.
    That's very good. I've read negatives where I've got the feeling that
    things were a little more complex than the person had room to explain. A
    better explanation would be v. useful, and perhaps deter vindictive
    negatives if the person had to concoct a story rather than just say
    'idiot' etc.
    True. I still suspect that eBay want to run the site in as much a 'hands
    off' manner as possible, and let the punters get on with it as far as
    possible.

    Have you sent this in? On an eBay forum perhaps.

    John
     
    John Fryatt, Sep 29, 2005
    #8
  9. denis

    Jeff Rife Guest

    John Fryatt () wrote in rec.photo.equipment.35mm:
    Yeah, I couldn't think of a way, though. :)
    Maybe a seller not posting feedback at all would automatically become a
    positive after a month? Maybe an automatic would only count 1/2 as much
    as one left by a human? This could work for both sellers and buyers, and
    would solve one other issue I really hated: doing a good job (as either
    seller or buyer) and never getting *any* feedback. I had a "beg" e-mail
    that actually encouraged people to leave a negative if they felt I had
    done bad (because I never felt I had, and obviously neither did they based
    on my feedback), and it was amazing how many times I needed to use it.
    Today, I don't care as much because I'm no longer in the "well, maybe he's
    OK" category.
    No, it was just off-the-cuff thoughts. The post is here for my reference,
    so I'll see if there is a place to send it to eBay, and give it an edit
    or two first.

    --
    Jeff Rife | "Isn't that just great? I can't find a real
    | relationship...I'm incapable of meaningless
    | sex...what does that leave me? Oh, my
    | God...I'm gonna have to learn computers."
    | -- Jon Cryer, "Partners"
     
    Jeff Rife, Sep 29, 2005
    #9
  10. denis

    The Dave© Guest

    I understand your point about reputations and such. I will admit that
    I say "precious" as a result of hanging out in an eBay newsgroup and
    reading alot of whining and fear and outrage over a first negative.
    Some people will go to great lengths, beyond reasonable, IMHO, to avoid
    that first one. Kind of makes me think that everyuone should start at
    "-1" just so it won't be such a big deal and people can get on with
    business.
     
    The Dave©, Sep 30, 2005
    #10
  11. denis

    The Dave© Guest

    All too true. Many will even state in their auctions that they will
    only leave feedback upon receipt of feedback. For about a year now I
    have had a personal (unspoken) policy of not leaving any feedback at
    all for people who do this. I'll still buy from them, just no feedback.

    It's unfortunate, because I just received a lens from a guy in Colorado
    that I am thrilled with. It's better than described, but... he had to
    put that clause in his auction description. Not only do I feel like
    I'm being extorted for feedback, it's rude.
     
    The Dave©, Sep 30, 2005
    #11
  12. denis

    denis Guest

    John -

    I now have the camera - the condition is absolutely immaculate -
    amazing for such a vintage model.

    The insect is visible in the date display at the bottom of the
    viewfinder itself and is not very noticeable; it appears quite sharp -
    I haven't spotted it yet after taking off the lens but I'll carry on
    looking. Fortunately where it is, it isn't very bothersome.
     
    denis, Oct 1, 2005
    #12
  13. denis

    denis Guest

    my posting has generated a lot of interesting comments about Ebay - as
    in your case - many thanks to everybody.

    An interesting sequal is that one day after sending back the camera I
    received a refund from the seller (via PayPal) for the purchase price
    including the shipping charge.This was an unexpected and pleasant
    surprise as i thought I might have a problem getting my money back.

    In the circumstances, as regards feedback, I feel inclined to either
    ignore the subject - or to be generous and leave positive feedback,
    saying that there was a problem but the seller has responded with
    exemplary speed in making a refund. I would be interested to have
    comments on this.
     
    denis, Oct 1, 2005
    #13
  14. denis

    Jeff Rife Guest

    () wrote in rec.photo.equipment.35mm:
    Leaving positive makes sense. Although you don't have the product you
    want, and it did cost you a little time, it cost you very little money.
    If they were trying to defraud you to get your money with a false
    description, they would not have refunded so quickly. To me, this makes
    them a seller who doing business with isn't a risk, which is what feedback
    rating is supposed to help determine.
     
    Jeff Rife, Oct 1, 2005
    #14
  15. Yes, that would be fine. I bought a Nikkor 70-200 D from a seller on
    EBay and there was a large "spec" near the center of one of the outer
    elements [not the outermost element]. I got a refund without hesitation
    and ineed, I was offered alternative merchandise at a good price. I
    left this seller positive feedback without hesitation, and I don't
    recall, but I don't believe I even mentioned there was ever an issue.
     
    Thomas T. Veldhouse, Oct 1, 2005
    #15
  16. Yes. You can't blame a seller for selling you defective merchandize. - After
    all, it could have been defective when he got it, or become defective during
    shipping. If he sells a lot of stuff, he can't afford to thoroughly check
    out the condition of every item that passes through his hands. Also, he
    can't be responsible if you didn't really know what you wanted to begin
    with. All you can expect him to do is to make it good if you are
    dissatisfied. If he does that, then he deserves good feedback.
     
    William Graham, Oct 1, 2005
    #16
  17. denis

    denis Guest

    Jeff -

    Thanks for your reply and opinion - I'll leave positive feedback.
     
    denis, Oct 2, 2005
    #17
  18. That is just what I have done when that has happened to me a couple of
    times. Anyone can have a snafu, but a decent seller will sort it out
    with no quibbles. In a way, it is more reassuring to know that than that
    any number of no-problem sales went OK.

    David
     
    David Littlewood, Oct 3, 2005
    #18
  19. It's not a bug, it's a feature ....
     
    David Littlewood, Oct 3, 2005
    #19
  20. denis

    ian lincoln Guest

    S? N? Another F&*k Up
     
    ian lincoln, Oct 4, 2005
    #20
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