Interesting Question about D2X sensors

Discussion in 'Digital SLR' started by pixby, Aug 30, 2005.

  1. pixby

    pixby Guest

    Nikon are going to great lengths to explain how they capture 12
    megapixels of data with their new "dual" sensor in the D2X. They are
    describing their sensor's photo collector points of the newly released
    Pro D2X cameras as being 2 different types/sizes of collector points...

    Sigma did the same with their Foveon sensor SD9 cameras. I think because
    Nikon collect RGB data from each site, they cannot be lumped in with the
    Foveon "invention" of sensor size. Just the same, the Nikon sensor is
    different from a traditional bayer sensor as we know it in a Canon
    camera. How different is not as clear as it should be.

    We are aware that smaller photo receptors have their own unique
    problems. Is using two different size receptors in the way inkjet
    printer makers get nicer looking images by using different size droplets
    of ink, have Nikon discovered how to make a high resolving sensor in a
    small size?

    So here's the question of the day for thinking people: How many sensors
    are in a D2X Nikon to achieve 12 megapixel images? Careful now... It's a
    loaded question!
    pixby, Aug 30, 2005
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  2. pixby

    Jeremy Nixon Guest

    Where are they doing that, exactly?
    It's a regular Bayer sensor. I don't know what you're talking about.
    Why would this have anything to do with a D2x? They aren't using two
    different sizes of photo receptors.
    There's one sensor, with 12.8 million photo detectors.
    Jeremy Nixon, Aug 30, 2005
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  3. pixby

    Brian Baird Guest

    Jeremy: if you want to get into a long, useless discussion... this is

    Dougie is off his freaking rocker and doesn't believe any published
    specs... nor common sense... nor appeals to his humanity. Next time he
    rattles off about the D2X sensor, just walk away! ;)
    Brian Baird, Aug 31, 2005
  4. pixby

    Canongirly Guest

    1: This is NOT a very interesting question
    2: Who gives a **** anyway?
    Canongirly, Aug 31, 2005
  5. pixby

    JPS Guest

    In message <>,
    I just looked quickly through the latest version of dcraw.c, and it
    looks pretty normal except for one thing; it seems to have four
    different color filters. The scaling factors for the sensitivities are
    pre_mul(n), where n is usually 0 for red, 1 for green, and 2 for blue,
    with green (1) usually unstated for each camera, assumed to be 1.0. The
    D2X has pre_mul() values for 0, 1, and 3. Very few cameras have 4
    multiplier values.
    JPS, Aug 31, 2005
  6. pixby

    Chrlz Guest

    it looks pretty normal except for one thing; it seems to have four
    Perhaps it is like the Sony F828 sensor, which was an RGBE (E=Emerald)
    sensor, rather than the usual RGBG..

    But anyway, this is not related to pixby/Douglas' delusion that the D2X
    interpolates from 6Mp to 12Mp (grin). As is well known to everyone but
    him, the sensor uses a high-speed *crop* mode, where it simply does not
    read data from about half of the sensor to speed it up - at the cost of
    image size.
    Chrlz, Aug 31, 2005
  7. pixby

    Jeremy Nixon Guest

    Is what you're looking at the same as the TIFF CFAPattern? If so, 3
    would be cyan. However, according to the metadata in my DNG files, the
    CFA layout is given as 0,1,1,2 (R/G/G/B), suggesting a standard layout.
    But if the values you're talking about are something else, I'm not sure
    what to look for; the difference could be in the color matrices.
    Jeremy Nixon, Aug 31, 2005
  8. pixby

    pixby Guest

    Ah, yes... Another poster so convinced he knows it all, he just presumes
    his square world is the only one existing. Pity poor old Brian when he
    gets to the edge. Jeremy is wasting his time... Been in my kill file
    because of his insults. You'll be the next to go Brian, right along with

    Prey tell, Brian, how do you (intentionally) manufacturer a sensor with
    different sized photo receptors?
    pixby, Aug 31, 2005
  9. pixby

    Jeremy Nixon Guest

    Not wasting at all. I don't answer your questions for *your* benefit, after
    all. If you want to go on believing that the camera has different sized
    photo sensors, that's up to you, but I'd hate to see anyone else think your
    delusions have any merit.
    Pity you're missing the answers you wanted when you posted.
    Jeremy Nixon, Aug 31, 2005
  10. pixby

    JPS Guest

    In message <>,
    It could also be that every other green has a different sensitivity.

    Do you know where I can download sample RAW files?
    JPS, Aug 31, 2005
  11. pixby

    Jeremy Nixon Guest

    Drop me an email so I'll have a valid address, and I'll get you a couple.
    I use DNG and delete the NEFs but I can take a couple shots and put the
    NEFs somewhere for you and send you a download link.
    Jeremy Nixon, Aug 31, 2005
  12. pixby

    Brian Baird Guest

    Talk to freaking Fuji about that.

    As for what you MEAN (how do you make a dual mode CMOS sensor), it's
    relatively simple given the nature of CMOS technology. You can process
    the pixel individually so it's pretty easy.

    12.8 megapixels uses the ENTIRE sensor.

    The 6 megapixel crop mode uses a center portion of the sensor.

    It isn't fucking rocketry, you ingrate!
    Brian Baird, Aug 31, 2005
  13. pixby

    Brian Baird Guest

    Is it possible these are masked edge pixels and just labeled weird?
    Brian Baird, Aug 31, 2005
  14. pixby

    Rox-off Guest

    I know a few D2X shooters who couldn't give a rats arse as to how Nikon
    do whatever they do to get the pics. They simply use the cameras for
    (gosh!) taking pictures.
    Rox-off, Aug 31, 2005
  15. SNIP
    Which is verifyable with a resolution test target, if one has a doubt.

    Bart van der Wolf, Aug 31, 2005
  16. pixby

    JPS Guest

    In message <>,
    I don't think so. The pre_mul[] values are for light-collecting pixels.
    JPS, Aug 31, 2005
  17. pixby

    JPS Guest

    In message <>,
    Why are you participating in a discussion that doesn't interest you?
    Are you a masochist? A control freak?
    JPS, Aug 31, 2005
  18. pixby

    Brian Baird Guest

    Strange. If the sensor had an extra (or different) color filter, I'm
    sure the marketing and PR guys would be trumpeting it.
    Brian Baird, Sep 1, 2005
  19. pixby

    JPS Guest

    In message <>,
    I'd see what's going on with it, but dcraw.c is a bit thick for me. I
    can write C code, but I am not good at reading other people's,
    especially when it has grown the way dcraw.c has. What would be a lot
    easier is just having a D2X NEF of a gretag-Macbeth color checker.
    JPS, Sep 1, 2005
  20. pixby

    McLeod Guest

    They were for the last 6 months or so in every magazine ad I saw.
    McLeod, Sep 1, 2005
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