Is a 1/1.8" (7.18 x 5.32 mm) sensor sufficient for 10mp and 12mp?

Discussion in 'Digital Cameras' started by Paul D. Sullivan, Feb 11, 2007.

  1. Is a 1/1.8" (7.18 x 5.32 mm) sensor sufficient for 10mp and 12mp
    of data?

    Or would a larger sensor be preferrable, such as a 2/3" or even

    Paul D. Sullivan, Feb 11, 2007
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  2. What ISO do you want to use?

    David J Taylor, Feb 11, 2007
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  3. 80-400 probably
    Paul D. Sullivan, Feb 11, 2007
  4. [top-posting corrected]
    80 - perhaps OK
    400 - noise limited

    David J Taylor, Feb 11, 2007
  5. Paul D. Sullivan

    ASAAR Guest

    You've asked this question before, but worded a bit differently.
    I thought that you understood the many answering replies, but . . .

    The answer is that it depends. On the photographer. On the
    photographer's expectations. On the year. On the types of pictures
    you'll take. On all sorts of things, and for some photographers,
    not only will a 1/1.8" sensor forever be insufficient, some only
    accept FF sensors, deeming even APS-C sensors deficient due to their
    "insanely small pixels". Many others think that 1/1.8" sensors are
    more than sufficient for their needs, even with their large numbers
    of small pixels. The answers you get can only represent
    individual's preferences, and while it's unfortunate, you really
    have to form your own preferences by examination and testing, either
    of your own images or those taken by other photographers. If your
    preferences are formed by agreeing with someone that makes a good
    case for why *that individual* likes a particular type of sensor,
    you'll never have the satisfaction of discovering for yourself what
    works for *you*. Some find it simpler to be followers, becoming
    disciples of a photographic guru. And if that guru suddenly decides
    that not only are 4/3" sensors too small, now even APS-C sensors are
    as well, followers will follow to the Full Frame Promised Land, even
    if they've never made a single print any larger than 8" x 10" and
    have no desire to ever do so.

    If you can't afford to buy and try many cameras, you could easily
    download images produced by those 1/1.8", 2/3" and 4/3" sensors, and
    determine for yourself if they're lacking in the resolution that you
    want, or are too noisy at high ISOs for your purposes. I think
    that this has been suggested before. The answers that you're
    seeking will come from people whose tastes differ. That doesn't
    mean that some are right and that the others are wrong. What I'm
    trying to say is that at some point you need to end the asking and
    do your own tasting.
    ASAAR, Feb 11, 2007
  6. I prefer top posting for quick replies so people do not have to
    scroll all the way down. :)

    thanks for the reply.
    Paul D. Sullivan, Feb 11, 2007
  7. I was asked to be more specific, so I chose a specific sensor
    size and two specific resolutions.
    Paul D. Sullivan, Feb 11, 2007
  8. Paul D. Sullivan

    ASAAR Guest

    But my reply was to your OP, the first one in this thread. It had
    nothing to do with David's reply that asked about the ISO you want
    to use. Or was the more specific question one that was posed in
    another thread? If so, you might have have included some "in
    context" quotes.

    It appears that you missed the "big picture" of my last reply, one
    that might have had you see that introspection would be more
    beneficial than asking more specific questions. But that's what
    works for me, and evidently doesn't or won't for you. As I hinted,
    implied, suggested . . . I think that previous replies contained
    enough information to answer to your new, specific questions,
    assuming that you'd spend enough time digesting them.
    ASAAR, Feb 11, 2007
  9. On my screen, both your comment and my replies fitted without scrolling.
    I do agree that we see far too many posts where the dross in not
    sufficiently trimmed. I prefer to keep the text in top-to-bottom order of
    writing, as used in most Western books, newspapers, magazines etc. for the
    last several centuries.

    I'm glad you found my answer useful.

    David J Taylor, Feb 11, 2007
  10. I keep hearing from students and folks with laptops that since
    they only have 800 vertical pixels, they get annoyed scrolling
    down. Hard to please everyone, it seems. :)

    Anyway, thanks.
    Paul D. Sullivan, Feb 11, 2007
  11. Paul D. Sullivan

    ray Guest

    I should expect that all other things being equal, a larger chip would
    result in less noise. I think that's probably as far as one can take that.
    ray, Feb 11, 2007
  12. Not really, if messages and answers are properly trimmed down
    to the bare essence, there should be no issues. All it takes is a bit
    of snipping and a sense for nettiquette and logic.
    Bart van der Wolf, Feb 11, 2007
  13. Paul D. Sullivan

    Bill Funk Guest

    I really wonder at people who seem to think pressing the down-arrow
    key or the page-down key is just so difficult.

    Rudy Giuliani began seeking
    the GOP presidential nomination
    on Tuesday. He's pro-choice,
    pro-gay marriage, pro-gun control
    and he did a skit in drag that
    is on the Internet. If Osama
    bin Laden hadn't attacked him
    Pat Robertson would have.
    Bill Funk, Feb 11, 2007
  14. Paul D. Sullivan

    Bill Funk Guest

    Define "sufficient".
    It depends on what you find acceptable.
    You can go to many sites that review cameras and look at the
    representative pictures, and even at specific pictures designed to
    show noise (I assume you're worried about noise from these sensors at
    the ISOs you mention). Decide for yourself, because we really can't
    decide for you.
    If the noise is acceptable to you, then the sensor is sufficient for
    your needs.
    It really is that simple.

    Rudy Giuliani began seeking
    the GOP presidential nomination
    on Tuesday. He's pro-choice,
    pro-gay marriage, pro-gun control
    and he did a skit in drag that
    is on the Internet. If Osama
    bin Laden hadn't attacked him
    Pat Robertson would have.
    Bill Funk, Feb 11, 2007
  15. There is no solid concensus. Some people get irritated that they
    have to scroll, and get mad at people who don't top post.

    Some people freak out about how quotes are done, like in Outlook
    Express, some don't care. I use OE-QuoteFix and that seems to
    satisfy most folks.

    I prefer Plain Text, others like colors and bolding text and what
    not. Some like to send HTML messages and get mad at others who
    don't like to view all that stuff.

    Life happens. It's just not worth stressin' over. There are so
    many more important things, so sometimes I try not to nitpick.
    It just upsets folks and unless it's something that is a core
    value or belief, letting it slide is something I can live with.
    Paul D. Sullivan, Feb 11, 2007
  16. Fair enough. :)
    Paul D. Sullivan, Feb 11, 2007
  17. Maybe it's the funky locations of the arrow keys on different
    laptops or also the different finger pad things. I know that I
    just totally can't get used to having to hold down a blue
    function toggle to be able to type in F1, F2, etc on some things.
    I just try to go along with what makes sense.

    I see their point - scrolling can be a total pain, so I listen
    and am like "ok, I can adjust - to you the thing is valid and
    that's cool"

    Like how some people totally freak out if someone misspells or
    mis capitalizes or uses apostrophe's wrong. I try to focus on
    what is being said. If I can understand what they are trying to
    communicate, that's pretty much good enough for me.

    Some people get mad at windbags who spend more time trying to
    articulate an answer around the question or criticizing the
    question itself instead of just answering the thing, and some get
    mad at people who don't get into lots of detail because they
    think if they give a short answer they are just "blowin' them
    off" and stuff.

    Human behavior is just wacky all over the place. I just keep
    eatin, sleepin and grinnin. Seems to get me through the day. :)
    Paul D. Sullivan, Feb 11, 2007
  18. Ok. I was actually not looking for a terribly specific answer,
    just a general one like "It seems that 1/1.8" is really not that
    effective about 6mp, in my opinion" or something like that. Or
    maybe "I think 1/1.8" sorta maxes out at 8mp in general before
    you get to a point of diminishing returns." No biggie. Thanks
    for the reply though - I do appreciate it.
    Paul D. Sullivan, Feb 11, 2007
  19. AFAIK the OP wants an unbiased, blanket opinion?
    I don't think that's possible in today's world.It's not like asking a
    question of pure physics, "how many HP of motorage needs that deep well"?It
    depends on what anyone likes, and many other regulars here suggest to read
    reviews of cameras, and go to a shop and see for yourself how that camera
    "feels" in your hand.I bought a Kodak CX 7300 because then I didn't have
    more money, now with 144 euros I'd get at least 5 MP (the CX 7300 is 3.2)and
    I'm making lots of A4s.
    Tzortzakakis Dimitrios, Feb 11, 2007
  20. Paul D. Sullivan

    Just D Guest

    "Alfred Molon"
    That's why I often prefer to answer at the top of the message. The years
    that I spent on Fidonet (almost from the very beginning of this network
    which is already old) made me do that because it's physically impossible to
    review hundreds or even thousands of messages through the night scrolling
    them down each time when you open a new one. So we had a simple official
    rule to add the answer to the top of the message and trim the worthless
    parts to avoid overgrowing of the messages. I like this rule and I actually
    spent so many years following it that I even can't imagine another one as
    more appropriate. Another one significant rule - don't overquote!

    The downside of all that are the people who started their network activity
    from public usenet newsgroups only and they have no idea about the roots and
    advantages of these simple rules and what's that to read a few thousand
    messages in one night and even get some information from them :) These
    people usually argue against those who do that, in my mind, in more correct
    way by adding their answers to the top and deleting the overquoting. Usually
    2-3 lines from the previous message is more than enough to remind the people
    what's all that about. Also I'd never write a message completely repeating
    the previous post with my comment in one single word like "Agreed". It would
    force a few thousands or real people to read this worthless message without
    any new info that they can learn from it.

    Logically all that is harder because in real life we add our comments after
    quotes, it's also hard to delete the secondary part from the previous
    posting, especially for lazy people, but why all others should not be lazy
    to real/scroll all these quotes down? My own experience shows that it's
    probably hard, but that's a network rule and it's hard only in the very
    beginning, but then after some experience the things become obvious.

    As for me I can follow any rules absolutely easy now because I used to see
    many people, mostly newbie, barking at others because they are doing the
    right things. :)

    Just D.
    Just D, Feb 11, 2007
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