Kodak 400 Tmax compared to? also kodak polycontrast RC compared to?

My son just got started in a photography course at his college. He was
told that he will need to purchase 10 rolls of 400 speed black and
white film and 100 sheets of 8X10 paper, either Kodak polycontrast RC
or Illford Multigrade RC. The film he was told must not need to be
processed in C41 chemistry. On the film he says he has a choice
between Kodak, Illford, and Agfa. From what he told me the Kodak Tmax
400 apparently has a much less strict tolerance on processing
temperature than the other two. If this is correct, are there any
drawbacks with using that film over the other two? For the paper he's
found a box of Kodak 100 for 24.00 plus 9.00 shipping on Ebay from a
guy in Vermont, and so he's considering going with that. For the Tmax
400 he's found that for 2.50 a roll plus 10.00 shipping form WB Hunt
in Melrose Mass. I would sincerely appreciate any and all comments
about the products, and the prices we've found. Thanks very much.
Lenny Stein.
Please note: You may respond here in this forum, however if you would
prefer you may also email me at:

 

: My son just got started in a photography course at his college. He was
: told that he will need to purchase 10 rolls of 400 speed black and
: white film and 100 sheets of 8X10 paper, either Kodak polycontrast RC
: or Illford Multigrade RC. The film he was told must not need to be
: processed in C41 chemistry. On the film he says he has a choice
: between Kodak, Illford, and Agfa. From what he told me the Kodak Tmax
: 400 apparently has a much less strict tolerance on processing
: temperature than the other two. If this is correct, are there any
: drawbacks with using that film over the other two? For the paper he's
: found a box of Kodak 100 for 24.00 plus 9.00 shipping on Ebay from a
: guy in Vermont, and so he's considering going with that. For the Tmax
: 400 he's found that for 2.50 a roll plus 10.00 shipping form WB Hunt
: in Melrose Mass. I would sincerely appreciate any and all comments
: about the products, and the prices we've found. Thanks very much.
: Lenny Stein.
: Please note: You may respond here in this forum, however if you would
: prefer you may also email me at:

Actually the Tmax films are very sensitive to processing and in my never
humble opinion not a good choice for a beginner. I would suggest starting
with Ilford's HP5 or Kodak's Tri-x. They are very forgiving films and
when developed with d76 (more then likely what he'll be using at school)
it'll be hard to not get something printable.
--




Keep working millions on welfare depend on you

 

I'm not sure where the comment on temperture tolerance is coming from.
It's not like the film will be processed at colour temps. 68F is pretty
standard. Some will push that temp up to 75F to get quicker processing
times. I can't beleive any modern film would have any problems with normal
processing temps. Now by modern I don't mean stuff from the last decade.
It's more like stuff released the last 100 years. Personally I'd lean
towards Ilfords HP5+ but that's just me. I wouldn't let processing be a big
hang up. If the goal is to get lower priced film then buy a bulk loader and
100 feet of film. A used bulk loader and the 100 feet of film won't be much
more then what you are currently looking at for film but 100 feet of film is
closer to 18 rolls of 36 exposures.

I'd avoid buying paper from some guy on Ebay. If I'm right your son
won't be able to tell problems with the paper from any problems his
processing creates. You want to use the best freshest stuff you can when you
are just starting out. Later when you know what you're doing then buying
riskier stuff may be just the ticket for artistic looking prints.

Instead of buying film and paper from two different sellers and then
paying shipping for both surf over to either B&H or Adorama. Both have
fairly reasonable prices on paper and film.


http://www.bhphotovideo.com/

or

http://www.adorama.com/catalog.tpl


You might want to also ask in the rec.photo.darkroom newsgroup.

Nick

 

TMAX films can be processed over a very wide range of temperatures. They are
not very tolerant over time variances, or variances in the temperature for a
given time. A lot of students will use the time for 75 degrees, but won't be
terribly precise and will use chemicals at 75ish degrees, and this will cause
problems with TMAX. I think this is what they were refering to when they were
talking about temperature tolerances.

Frank

 

T-Max is a New Technology film, which tends to have tighter exposure
tolerances. I used to soup my own Ilford HP-5, and pretty much any know
temperature from 60F to about 90F will work, you just need the technical
data sheet to know how long to cook it at a given temperature. It's
also very forgiving exposure wise, which for someone who isn't as
experienced can be helpful.

Ilford Multigrade papers help, if the exposure is a little off, contrast
often gets crappy, so being able to print harder or softer can help get
an acceptable print. The ideal is combine a wide latitude film like
HP-5 with the Multigrade papers, allows you to pull a usable print out
of a dogs regurgitated breakfast that sometimes happens especially if he
isn't experienced at photography.

I wouldn't buy either off the Internet, it may be old crap that hasn't
been stored properly. Try and find a brick of film, that is all from
the same lot, that has a good long off expiry date. Then you know that
you can expect some consistancy roll to roll. Same for the paper, a
nice big box all from the same lot, is helpful for consistancy....

W

 

I realize that you're just trying to help, but these are questions your son
should be asking. Most probably, he should be asking his instructor and/or
teaching assistants.

It really doesn't matter what kind of film or paper he buys, as long as it's
regular black & white and not C41. If I were him, I'd buy what others in
the class are buying so they can sort through their problems together.

 

I'd seriously think about buying from b&H. for paper, kodak 8x10
poycontrast (II) is very decent, but will he also need kodak
polycontrast filters? As far as film, I'd go with Kodak Tri-X 400(
this is a very easy and forgiving film to develope, and prints from it
can run the gamlet from decent to the "WoW factor,also from b&H;
sometimes the imported stuff can be 50 cents of so cheaper, but is it
worth it for for only 10 rolls?

 

Kodak Tri-X and Ilford HP5+ are good films for beginners because they are
very forgiving. T-max 400 gives better results (finer grain) but is
slightly more sensitive to processing.

Most people believe that paper, outdated by a few years, if stored properly
is just as good as new stuff. E-bay is always a risk though...

 

Great place to store sizes you don't use a lot, is the deep freeze, the
date could be 5 years ago and it's like fresh. Problem is you never
know how the seller stores it. Store rooms are often cold in the winter
and boiling in the summer, so if the stuff has been sitting around for a
while then your taking a chance. Best places to buy are places that
turn it over fairly quickly and rotate their stock regularily, then even
if not stored properly it's probably going to be ok.

W

 

I think your son should work with TMax 400 film and Kodak paper; I
prefer luster finish to glossy, but that's a personal choice. Tri-X
(which is my favorite film) is more forgiving of time and temperature
variances during processing, but using TMax will develop (pun
partially intended) excellent processing skills. Then, if he later
decides to try a different film, his processing will be habitually
impeccable. Also, avoid purchasing film and paper from private
sellers not known to you. The price for these items at B&H
www.bhphotovideo.com eliminates the need to shop around. Their prices
are great and they usually have everything you need in stock and ready
for delivery, and they're quite reputable. Also, I'd recommend a
stainless steel processing tank with Hewes/King Concepts film reels
instead of the plastic tanks. Don't forget the Print File negative
preserver pages. Best of luck and success to your son in his studies
and photographic pursuits.

Michael

 

The T-Max films are very unforgiving of processing deviations, which becomes
a real problem in the summer. Tri-X has changed theit times radically for
the "New" Tri-X. Very easy to get the old and new mixed. That leaves HP-5
which in D-76 is about as fool proof as it gets. Especially w/ Ilford RC MG.
Making and correcting mistakes is what learning is about, but you have to
get them to come out in the first place to do that. As a matter of fact, I
find the whole Ilford line about as fool proof as can be.
Bob Hickey

 

I've found Kodak TMax specially fussy with processing times and temperatures.
It's quite easy to mess up. Ilford's HP5+ or even the new Delta 400 has
given me excellent results even in adverse processing conditions, and HP5+
is very easy to handle. I'd go with HP5+. Agfa's APX 400 is a nice film
too but I don't find it at my local store often so I switched to Ilford.
As for paper, I'd recommend Agfa or Ilford. I've found their behavior
extremely consistent. My personal preference is Agfa paper. Their RC
papers are very easy to wash, and they even tone very well for an RC paper.
Agfa's fiber based papers are excellent too.

 

Thanks very much to all the people who responded. Your suggestions
were very helpful. We placed the order with B&H on Sunday. Lenny
Stein.