Kodak Discontinues All B&W Paper

Discussion in 'Kodak' started by Richard Knoppow, Jun 15, 2005.

  1. Richard Knoppow

    l.michael Guest

    Probably should be spelled Tetenal.

    Lars
     
    l.michael, Jun 15, 2005
    #21
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  2. Richard Knoppow

    pgg Guest

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  3. Hmm... I suppose this must be a part of Kodak's "enduring commitment to the
    art of traditional B&W photography" strategy.

    Or not... I just now looked and can no longer find that phrase on their
    Website. Funny. I know I saw it there just the other day...

    Ken
     
    Ken Nadvornick, Jun 15, 2005
    #23
  4. Richard Knoppow

    Rod Smith Guest

    There's certainly movement in the direction of using film as a way to get
    stuff into digital form (via a film scanner), either as an end in itself
    or as a means to get digital prints. I don't have statistics, but my
    impression is that this tendency is more prevalent in the color arena than
    in the B&W realm. Still, if there's a significant market for B&W film in
    which the film is then scanned and either used on the computer or printed
    from the scans, then that will cut out the need for traditional B&W paper.
    It's possible that a significant amount of the B&W photofinishing industry
    works this way, even if those who process their own film don't. I know
    I've gotten back at least one roll of true B&W film printed on what looked
    like color paper before I got into the darkroom stuff myself.
     
    Rod Smith, Jun 15, 2005
    #24
  5. That's fine as long as they don't spell it Tetanol. ;-)

    Ralf
     
    Ralf R. Radermacher, Jun 15, 2005
    #25
  6. Richard Knoppow

    Scott W Guest

    And of course everyone else making film and paper is making money with
    out a problem?

    It is very hard to make money with a produce where the demand is
    shrinking each year.
     
    Scott W, Jun 15, 2005
    #26
  7. Richard Knoppow

    Scott W Guest

    They seem to have pulled that slogan off of their web site. You can
    still find it here
    http://www.kodak.com/global/en/professional/support/techPubs/f4018/f4018.pdf

    Google still has links to the slogan but when you click them you get a
    page not found.

    Scott
     
    Scott W, Jun 15, 2005
    #27
  8. For those on the west side of the puddle:
    Tetanol is a tetanus/diphtheria vaccine made by Behring/Chiron,
    flap a couple of years ago re temporary deafness.
     
    Nicholas O. Lindan, Jun 15, 2005
    #28
  9. Richard Knoppow

    dan.c.quinn Guest

    I would'nt have thought they'd do that. I had the impression
    they were feeding a slew of ONE-HOUR processors; all RC and
    no FB. OH, that Azo crowd, what will they do now?
    A magnanimous gesture on Kodak's part. No longer a competitor
    we've now likely a few better financed overseas suppliers. Dan
     
    dan.c.quinn, Jun 15, 2005
    #29
  10. "Scott W" responded:
    Heh heh...

    Ken
     
    Ken Nadvornick, Jun 15, 2005
    #30
  11. You never know what special concessions might be made.
    I'll wait and see. Hopefully Azo won't go away just because of the
    large scale shut down.
    Thats a good thing, but will they know how to make use of the
    small market Kodak has in B&W papers.
     
    Gregory Blank, Jun 15, 2005
    #31
  12. Richard Knoppow

    Peter Chant Guest

    Gregory Blank wrote:

    I'm not exactly a keen darkroom guy but I didn't even realise they still
    made paper.
     
    Peter Chant, Jun 15, 2005
    #32
  13. IMOP the only one worthy of note is Azo, made to special order.
     
    Gregory Blank, Jun 16, 2005
    #33
  14. Agfa Photo is out of business too, as of three weeks ago. I immediately
    ordered $300 or so of paper from existing stock at B&H. At least I'll
    have my favorite MCC for awhile in the hope that Agfa's demise is a
    temporary one for reorganization purposes.
     
    LR Kalajainen, Jun 16, 2005
    #34
  15. Richard Knoppow

    John Guest

    There is no question about greed. It is built in to every large companies
    "culture" today. I don't recall anyone saying that Kodak should operate at
    a loss. As I said earlier in another thread, they simply need to modernize
    their production, marketing and sales methods. Instead of doing so , and
    subseqently keeping supplies available while making a profit, they are
    slowly and deliberately closing their doors.

    BTW, when did they last announce the discontinuation of all B-&-W
    materials ? Wasn't that around '70 ?
     
    John, Jun 16, 2005
    #35
  16. Richard Knoppow

    John Guest

    I thought PolyMax II RC was pretty good for a VC/RC.
     
    John, Jun 16, 2005
    #36
  17. Never used it extensively- I liked MG better,
    Elite was the last Kodak paper I liked
    besides Azo. I started out using Medalist and Kodabrome
    which came with my first D-room kit.

    BTW as much as I like Forte VC Polgrade, I liked Elite a lot better.
     
    Gregory Blank, Jun 16, 2005
    #37
  18. I love MCC too. The semi-matte is my preference as a replacement for
    Ektalure. Polymax Fine Art was also great. Realizing that Agfa is having
    problems I am testing some others with an eye to companies that may be
    around for awhile.

    I have used Arista in the past where I taught - from Freestyle. I always
    thought it was repackaged Illford. I found out it was Kentmere who I had
    never heard of.

    Now I am trying Kentmere - available from both Freestyle and B&H. From
    what I read they are a company that will stay the course for a few
    years. The Fineprint Warmtone and Neutral are both excellent papers -
    high quality and cheaper than Bergger. I have not used any of their RC
    as Kentmere, but the Arista was always very good. As my stock of MCC is
    used up I will replace it with Kentmere.

    I suspect I am older than most here. When B&W paper is finally gone I
    think I will be too so I am not going to get too excited, but some
    smaller companies like Kentmere will probably be around for quite some
    time. I dearly love time spent in the darkroom crafting a fine print. It
    is my main joy in photography.

    Having said that has anyone looked at a National Geographic lately? The
    quality now of a press print - printed with ink - at least in color - is
    the equal if not superior to a photograph. How long before that level of
    technology is available on a desktop printer? Maybe sooner than we
    think. So should I outlive film and paper as long as I am able to
    breath, hold a camera, and click a mouse I will adapt. I do love
    creating pictures.

    Come to think of it I have never coated a glass plate with emulsion,
    exposed wet then run into my tent to quickly develop it. I never missed
    doing that. Never made a daguerreotype, tintype, or ambrotype. Don't
    miss doing those either. Whatever comes along that will allow me to look
    at the world, record some moments with a camera and produce a visual
    interpretation of these moments on some paper media will make me a happy
    man.

    Frank Rome, NY
     
    Frank Calidonna, Jun 16, 2005
    #38
  19. Richard Knoppow

    Lloyd Erlick Guest

    jun1605 from Lloyd Erlick,

    Here is a conversation that took place on
    rec.photo.* recently.

    I see I saved it in a file named, 'Kodak is
    not going to discontinue film'.

    regards,
    --le



    ======================================
    •••••>Newsgroups: rec.photo.film+labs
    Subject: Re: Future of Kodak Photographic
    Papers?
    From: "Ron Baird" <>
    Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 11:15:00 -0400

    Hi Mike,

    Not to worry, Kodak will be making film and
    paper for a long time.

    Also, we have been offering press releases
    right along. Go to the following
    URL for details on the most recent. They are
    only a few as there are many
    others.

    http://www.kodak.com/eknec/PageQuerier.jhtml?pq-path=2509/2510&pq-locale=en_US

    Talk to you soon,

    Ron Baird
    Eastman Kodak Company




    "Michael A. Covington"
    message


    •••••>Newsgroups: rec.photo.film+labs
    Subject: Re: Future of Kodak Photographic
    Papers?
    From: "Ron Baird" <>
    Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 11:11:36 -0400

    Hi Dave,

    Let me first assure you that Kodak is not
    going to discontinue film or paper
    anytime soon, and surely not in 5 years.
    There is a giant market out there
    for such products and you will see that
    option around for a long time. Rest
    assured that Kodak will continue to make film
    for your cameras for a long
    time.

    Talk to you soon,

    Ron Baird
    Eastman Kodak Company




    message


    •••••>Newsgroups: rec.photo.film+labs
    Subject: Re: Future of Kodak Photographic
    Papers?
    From: "Ron Baird" <>
    Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 15:51:53 -0400

    Hi Dave,

    This is a great film list and I have used
    most of them. Actually, I
    preferred Pantomic X over techpan for
    contrast reasons. Unfortunately, not
    enough people wanted these films to make it
    feasible to continue to
    manufacture. The introduction of T-Max also
    helped in the replacement of
    them, and so they sadly they were
    discontinued. This happens like it does
    for most anything that has completed its
    product life but that no longer
    meet the needs of the many, or even the few
    in some cases.

    Film in general, however, will continue to
    thrive for a long time and you
    will find it for many years into the future.
    Although the films you note
    are gone, T-Max was introduced as noted,
    which brought a whole new emulsion
    technology to the fore. We do still invest
    in research for film products.
    Maybe not as before, of course, but we do.

    Talk to you soon.

    Ron Baird
    Eastman Kodak Company




    in message


    •••••>Newsgroups: rec.photo.film+labs
    Subject: Re: Future of Kodak Photographic
    Papers?
    From: Alan Browne
    <>
    Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 17:33:17 -0400


    Ron,

    Here's an idea: Every box of Kodak film and
    paper sold after June 1 2005 should
    contain a bond in it worth 33% of the
    suggsted retail price of the film or
    paper. The bond would be redeemable for cash
    if Kodak ceases making that
    product line prior to the bond expiry.

    The bond in the box will contain the
    packaging date of the film/paper product
    and the date 5 years + ~2 months hence when
    the bond expires and becomes worthless.

    Then when Kodak officially announce the 'cut'
    dates for film they will have to
    give a 5 year lead time for that type of
    film, or choose to reimburse the
    bondholders if they exit early. (I don't
    mean variants, but major lines like
    Kodachrome, Ektachrome, Portra, etc.)

    In this way, a serious film shooter can
    maintain his film equipment as long as
    the bonds are issued without too much fear
    for his investment. If Kodak want an
    early out, then they can evaluate the
    financial benefit of paying off the
    bondholders or maintaining that major film
    line for another 5 years. (from the
    decision date, the issued bonds would have
    ever decreasing validity periods).

    Benefit to Kodak: Those who prefer film will
    prefer Kodak risk protected
    product, keeping the lucrative sales up in
    that product portfolio as less
    photogs will jump to digital (given the
    "insurance" represented by the bond).
    Of course the bean counters will not like
    keeping the reserve that a bond would
    require, but there may be insurance that can
    be bought in lieu and passed on to
    the consumer (or simply removed from the fat
    margins).

    Don't like a 5 year bond? Okay, make it 2
    years, but 100% of the MRSP.

    Cheers,
    Alan

    --
    -- rec.photo.equipment.35mm user resource:
    -- http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm
    -- e-meil: there's no such thing as a
    FreeLunch.--

    =================================================
     
    Lloyd Erlick, Jun 16, 2005
    #39
  20. And that is what seems to be happening, just a
    bit sooner than expected.

    A firm can't say they are planning/thinking/talking
    to take a product off the market. It is a self-fulfilling
    prophecy: as soon as it is rumored the ship may
    sink people start to jump ship.

    Kodak will only announce the discontinuance when it is
    a fait acompli.

    Kodak gave warning in it's last annual report & quarterly
    filings. It's film imaging revenue is declining at
    19 to 38% per year, depending on product line. Three
    years of that and the business is down to 1/60 of what
    it is.
     
    Nicholas O. Lindan, Jun 16, 2005
    #40
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