Kodak Discontinues All B&W Paper

Discussion in 'Kodak' started by Richard Knoppow, Jun 15, 2005.

  1. Richard Knoppow

    Scott W Guest

    But what about on a more personal level, how many of you have all the
    negatives that your parents or grandparents shot. How many have
    prints, or know where prints are, of their great grandparents and also
    could put their hands on the negatives?

    Here are some links that relate to this issue

    http://www.twbookmark.com/books/72/0821228498/chapter_excerpt17595.html

    http://kyarchivists.org/kyarfall02p3.htm

    http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_zdpcm/is_200407/ai_ziff129603

    http://www.dallashistory.org/history/dallas/negative.htm

    http://history.sandiego.edu/gen/classes/media/time.html search for
    "lost negatives"

    http://www.hinduismtoday.com/archives/1989/10/1989-10-05.shtml again
    search for "lost negatives"

    Even with great care negatives get lost or damaged.

    Scott
     
    Scott W, Jun 18, 2005
    #61
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  2. On a personal level, some years ago, I tossed a couple of cubic feet of 35mm
    Kodachrome slides into the garbage. They were all properly focused and
    exposed, but they were too boring. I have also dumped a lot of negatives. I
    find if I do not print a negative pretty soon after I have exposed it, I
    will never print it, and no one else likes my images enough to print them.

    The funny thing is that the negatives, except my oldest ones, were achivally
    processed; i.e., two-bath fixing, rinse, KHCA, rinse, at least 10 minutes
    washing, weak PhotoFlo, room temperature air dry. So they would probably
    have lasted a long time in their archival mylar folders in archival paper
    sleeves in an archival box.

    But their artistic merit was too low to warrant even keeping them anymore.


    When my father died, my mother and I spent a couple of days going through
    all his lifetime of photographs. I kept one color negative out of a coupla
    large lawn-sweeping size garbage bags worth. Most of those had been well
    processed, but no one wanted any of the images, so they are gone too.


    Keeping images such as these, even digitally encoded, is not the issue. The
    issue is the low interest nature of the images. People have their own lives
    to live, and do not much care about the past except once in a while when
    nostalgia attacks them for a few minutes.


    Eugene Atget did not think much of his images. He did not consider them art,
    but just reference material for artists (i.e., painters and sculptors).
    Subsequent critical scholarship has produced a greater appreciation of his
    work than he had. Fortunately, his negatives and plates were rescued, at the
    last minute, by Berenice Abbott.

    Neither my father, nor I, are of the artistic calibre of Eugene Atget.
     
    Jean-David Beyer, Jun 18, 2005
    #62
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  3. Richard Knoppow

    Scott W Guest

    Often times the photographer does not realize that their photographs
    would be of interest to others. One thing that I have noted is that
    often it is the grandkids that have more interest in the photos then
    the kids. Photographs that might not seem interesting today could well
    be interesting in 10, 20, maybe 50 years.

    Here is a photo that at first glance does not appear to be very
    interesting, it is of my grandparents, on my father's side, visiting
    my grandparents on my mother's side. The negative for this photo
    has long since be lost so I scanned this from the print, and as you can
    tell the print is not too great. The hidden value in the photo is
    that it is about the only photos that we have that shows just how many
    weeds were always in my grandmothers rock garden.

    http://www.pbase.com/konascott/image/31445323/original

    We all sort of remembered how bad it was but looking back at the photo
    brought it all back.
     
    Scott W, Jun 18, 2005
    #63
  4. Richard Knoppow

    otzi Guest

    Jean-David Beyer wrote
    Keeping images such as these, even digitally encoded, is not the issue. The
    You have hit the nail on the head.
     
    otzi, Jun 18, 2005
    #64
  5. Richard Knoppow

    raoul Guest

    My school darkroom certainly won't be closed. I've used Illford for
    years mainly because they activly court the school market. They have
    had a deal where I can get a 25 sheet pack of paper and two 36 ex rolls
    of film for 12.10/ea if I buy a case of 10 packs. That's enough paper
    for a HS kid to last a twelve week class (we cut it smaller) and about
    1/4 the amount of film needed.

    Nope, I'm gonna miss Kodak but have never really used their materials
    except for Tri-X, Dektol and HC-110.

    raoul
     
    raoul, Jun 18, 2005
    #65
  6. Richard Knoppow

    Bernie Guest

    UC, I am so glad that you would know how to run Kodak at a profit and
    maintain the B&W papers. Please rush to Rochester immediately and offer your
    services as the new CEO. Only you can save us from the loss of other Kodak
    products in the future.

    P.S. I hear the job pays really good, whether you suck at it or not.
     
    Bernie, Jun 18, 2005
    #66
  7. Richard Knoppow

    Bernie Guest

    No more B&W papers means no more Azo. Once the facility is shut down, they
    won't start it up again just to make the smallest seller out of all the BW
    papers.
     
    Bernie, Jun 18, 2005
    #67
  8. Richard Knoppow

    UC Guest

    For one thing, I would have papers that are WORTH selling! The papers
    Kodak made in recent years were crap...except for Elite, which was
    poorly marketed and lasted only a few years...
     
    UC, Jun 18, 2005
    #68
  9. Like I stated I'll wait and see.
     
    Gregory Blank, Jun 18, 2005
    #69
  10. Richard Knoppow

    John Guest

    I was fortunate in that my late aunt gave me her negative album. Really
    love looking at those old cars with the wood spoke wheels.
     
    John, Jun 18, 2005
    #70
  11. Richard Knoppow

    Jan T Guest

    Hi Silver Folks,
    (sorry this does NOT refer to your or my hair color but to the process that
    is my favorite too)

    Last week I ran a test with ADOX, both warmtone and neutral tone FB.
    I'll have to redo the neutral tone print as it seems to be badly exposed,
    but the warmtone really knocked my socks off. I've been using Ilford for
    some years now and I dare say I can compare things. I orderd the paper
    online in Germany (www.fotoimpex.de).

    I can't regret Kodak stopping paper production, never used any Kodak papers,
    but would regret it if Tri-X left the planet, which is not unlikely as can
    be read in the "Is film next for Kodak???" thread.

    BTW, Fuji seems to have a B&W FB paper. Some time ago a kind japanese
    contributor gave us a translation of Fuji's Japanese website version (the
    englisch version does not mention B&W papers at all!!) What are they waiting
    for? Commercialisation must not be THAT difficult in Europe, where you find
    Fuji products in any village! (Don't know about the US though).

    Example - as far as it can let you see what I mean:
    http://home.tiscali.be/jant/fuelstation.jpg

    Regards,

    Jan




    "Nicholas O. Lindan" <> schreef in bericht
    |
    | > My contact at Kodak has informed me this morning that Kodak has
    | > discontinued all Black and White printing paper of all types in all
    | > sizes.
    |
    | Maybe Ilford can survive ... 1 down, 12 to go.
    |
    | Who's left -
    |
     
    Jan T, Jun 20, 2005
    #71
  12. Richard Knoppow

    dana.myers Guest

    What could Kodak do to deal with a rapidly shrinking market for a
    product? Make a large investment in changing their methods when
    the graph is trending towards zero? You don't write a check for
    NRE when there's little chance of recovering it.

    What should Kodak do? Off-shore B&W paper production
    to Bangalore or Beijing or The Prague ?

    Dana
     
    dana.myers, Jun 21, 2005
    #72
  13. Richard Knoppow

    John Guest

    As posted numerous times, it's not that they aren't making a profit, it's
    that they aren't making _enough_ of a profit. Production of a material is
    always profitable if you have enough of a margin.

    I don't believe that off-shoring is good solution for any business but of
    course many companies and consumersa seem to disagree. Even the state of
    Screw Jersey has sent it's welfare division to India. Now if we could
    off-shore Bush, I might just change my mind !
     
    John, Jun 21, 2005
    #73
  14. According to a news release I read the Kodak B&W papers have been made
    in Brazil for sometime.
     
    Gregory Blank, Jun 23, 2005
    #74
  15. Richard Knoppow

    geo Guest

    Depends on your definition of "enduring" I guess.
     
    geo, Jun 23, 2005
    #75
  16. The attention span length of the average institutional investor purchasing
    Kodak stock...?
     
    Ken Nadvornick, Jun 24, 2005
    #76
  17. Richard Knoppow

    Derek Gee Guest

    If you transfer your 8mm videotapes to MiniDV, or some other digital format
    (e.g. DigiBeta), you will not lose any quality. Keep a DVD copy for easy
    reference, but use the digital tape as your master.

    Derek
     
    Derek Gee, Jun 29, 2005
    #77
  18. You know - when a company had so much invested in an industry like Kodak
    had in silver film and paper, you would think that they would spend some
    time and energy doing PR about the superiority of silver-based
    technology over digital.
     
    USENET NEWSREADER, Jun 30, 2005
    #78
  19. Richard Knoppow

    UC Guest

    You forget: the're fucking retards!

     
    UC, Jun 30, 2005
    #79
  20. Richard Knoppow

    UC Guest

    You forget: they're fucking retards!

     
    UC, Jun 30, 2005
    #80
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