Kodak on digital and film future

Discussion in 'Kodak' started by Michael Scarpitti, Dec 28, 2003.

  1. Michael Scarpitti

    Dana Myers Guest


    Did't see that article on 60 minutes about M**santo and the poor
    community in SC where people had not been informed
    of the PCB's in the local stream. Seems like they had been eating
    fish from that stream since God knows when and Mon*anto had
    never told them the PCBs were their since 1941. Highest incidence
    of cancers in the Country.

    Ask the good people of Bopal India how good industry is about catching
    toxic wastes.[/QUOTE]

    C'mon Gregory, how many examples of responsible industrial
    conduct are you not mentioning while mentioning two examples
    of irresponsible conduct? If all we do is cite examples of the
    extreme, then we ignore the reality. If industry killed everyone,
    it would eventually impact the bottom line and they'd make less
    money.

    Dana
     
    Dana Myers, Dec 31, 2003
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  2. Know one says it kills everyone, just that it kills someone(s) and mostly indirectly.
    And when the company changes the name? How does that effect the
    bottom line, Union Carbide changed thier name to avoid the India
    incident, among others. I worked for a company that did a site survey
    of a Union Carbide property. For years they dumped chemicals on ground
    adjacent to the Chesapeake Bay. Trees on one side of the road were full size
    trees on the other where the chemicals were dumped were about 1/3 as high
    in other words stunted. More than likely there are more examples where
    companies have dumped chemicals without responsability, tons of chemicals.
    Case and point was the Super Fund site in a local town near where I live, small
    un assuming place maybe 5 acres, never the less the company that owned the property
    made printed circuit boards, they dumped barrels of stuff on premisses. Now theres a
    large grocery store and new housing developement adjacent.

    What about mercury, power plants typically spew 40 tons of mercury into the air
    per year. Maybe that doesn't concern people because they are young, my Uncle worked for
    BG&E he died from bone cancer. My dad he had cancer too I watched him wither
    away over about 6 months, he worked in several large industrial companies most notable
    a chemical plant that made paints and solvent.

    My point in all this: home darkroom users hopefully "are" more responsible, but my guess
    is that they are alot say by comparison to people who dump motor oil, or household cleaners
    which btw are alot more toxic than about 99% of B&W Chemistry. Oh and btw the landfills
    are not full enough, because judging from some of the places I photograph at there are alot of assholes
    still dumping trash, appliances and every other gadjet in stream beds and enviromentally sensitive areas.
     
    Gregory W Blank, Jan 1, 2004
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  3. You should have added; as someone- somewhere will be producing "Film"
    to meet the demand, like it or not.

    After all one can get still vintage auto parts can one not? Even if one must buy
    a custom fabrication or the like.
     
    Gregory W Blank, Jan 1, 2004
  4. Michael Scarpitti

    John Guest

    LOL ! _I_ certainly wasn't insinuating that but in fact
    manufacturers have their systems designed well over a year prior to
    release. I've seen some of them. '04 is going to be pretty sweet !

    Regards,

    John S. Douglas, Photographer - http://www.darkroompro.com
    Please remove the "_" when replying via email
     
    John, Jan 1, 2004
  5. Michael Scarpitti

    John Guest

    Boy do you know how to make friends !


    Regards,

    John S. Douglas, Photographer - http://www.darkroompro.com
    Please remove the "_" when replying via email
     
    John, Jan 1, 2004
  6. Michael Scarpitti

    John Guest

    On a local basis you might be right but consider the whole
    picture from production through disposal and you will understand what
    I meant.
    Then why do you contend that the minimal amount of relatively
    harmless chemicals utilized by some 2,000,000 amatuer darkroom-using
    photographers in the US can compare to the vast numbers of printers
    and inks produced and marketed daily ?
    The sheer quantity of the waste is enough but the chemicals
    used in the production of any electronics today are also more toxic
    than nearly all "normal" darkroom materials and chemicals. Are you
    using cyanides in your darkroom ? Tons of ketones ? C'mon Dana !
    Yep. In fact I have a formula posted on my site for making
    ones own glass plates negatives. Not even close to the toxicity of the
    chemicals used to make an ink cartridge.
    Sure. Have you personally visited Taiwan and seen the
    production facilities ? "Well controlled" ? One of my clients informed
    me of his opinion after his visit on business. He stated that it
    compares really well with Hell. A Hell that could never exist in
    America as OSHA and the EPA wouldn't allow it.
    Better silvered-fixer than mercury, cyanide and the plethora
    of other chemicals used to form the plastics, etch the circuits,
    purify the inks, etc .
    Right there with my C220.

    Regards,

    John S. Douglas, Photographer - http://www.darkroompro.com
    Please remove the "_" when replying via email
     
    John, Jan 1, 2004
  7. Michael Scarpitti

    John Guest

    Heavens forbid ! How on Earth could you slide into such
    liberalism ? !


    Regards,

    John S. Douglas, Photographer - http://www.darkroompro.com
    Please remove the "_" when replying via email
     
    John, Jan 1, 2004
  8. Michael Scarpitti

    Tom Phillips Guest

    Remember the prediction when computers arrived on the consumer and
    business scene, that word processors would replace pencils?

    It's laughable. I have a friend who in fact makes his living as a
    writer, with a couple of dozen books to his credit. Guess what he writes
    with :) And there's a plentiful supply of pencils.
     
    Tom Phillips, Jan 1, 2004
  9. Michael Scarpitti

    John Guest

    And all easily addressed by bottling your fixer and taking it
    to a recovery center. After the metals are leached out the thiosulfate
    isn't much more toxic than salt.


    Regards,

    John S. Douglas, Photographer - http://www.darkroompro.com
    Please remove the "_" when replying via email
     
    John, Jan 1, 2004
  10. Michael Scarpitti

    John Guest

    I think it's called the "Equilibrium of Mediocrity". At least
    that's what I would call it.


    Regards,

    John S. Douglas, Photographer - http://www.darkroompro.com
    Please remove the "_" when replying via email
     
    John, Jan 1, 2004
  11. Michael Scarpitti

    Tom Phillips Guest

    Thank you Richard Nixon (did *I* really say that?) :)

    Amazing that the republicans actually used to be the environmentalist party.
     
    Tom Phillips, Jan 1, 2004
  12. Michael Scarpitti

    John Guest

    The issue, as I see it, is that by the time the products for
    photography were being mass-marketed they were already stable and well
    made. The differences in cameras from the '20's to the current
    equivalent really are not tremendously significant. Exposure meters,
    auto-focus and integrated electronic flash are all simply
    conveniences.

    OTOH, the printers and electronics being mass marketed today
    are just beginning to get the bugs worked out. Most of the information
    is geared specifically towards marketing and very little qualified
    technically.


    Regards,

    John S. Douglas, Photographer - http://www.darkroompro.com
    Please remove the "_" when replying via email
     
    John, Jan 1, 2004
  13. Michael Scarpitti

    John Guest

    Easy.

    Look no further than the cheap computers being marketed by
    most OEMS today. Why would anyone market a system with Windows XP and
    128MB RAM ?

    Then again look at some of the cars being marketed today. Even
    something as remarkably simple as eyeglasses. Mankind is fraught with
    compromise and mediocrity.


    Regards,

    John S. Douglas, Photographer - http://www.darkroompro.com
    Please remove the "_" when replying via email
     
    John, Jan 1, 2004
  14. Michael Scarpitti

    Tom Phillips Guest

    Which is easily handled by your local sanitation facilty. OTOH you can
    remove the silver yourself and then dump the fixer down the drain. it's
    not difficult. In any case, sanitation districts have federal guidelines
    they must meet. The "bad" pollution that challenges the guidelines and
    requires regulation are point source pollutors, like industry and
    numerous dentist offices, which dump infinitely more silver and other
    metals into the waterways than home photo hobbiests.

    The mercury from computer discards leaching into the environment alone
    likely far exceeds the threat (if there is any) from silver complexes
    getting past sewage systems.
     
    Tom Phillips, Jan 1, 2004
  15. Michael Scarpitti

    Tom Phillips Guest

    You nailed it. That's a perfect description.
     
    Tom Phillips, Jan 1, 2004
  16. Michael Scarpitti

    John Guest

    Of course an item for sale has numerous purposes.

    For the manufacturer it's something that keeps the factories
    busy and stockholders happy while provided execs with fat pay scales.

    For the retailer it offers a channel into specific markets
    that might be profitable in their area(s).

    For the consumer the item must perform as desired and fit
    within their perceived budget.

    So who's wagging the dog ? They all take turns.

    Regards,

    John S. Douglas, Photographer - http://www.darkroompro.com
    Please remove the "_" when replying via email
     
    John, Jan 1, 2004
  17. This is something I actually know something about (finally!), since the last
    company I worked for made systems for copying CDs (using CDRs). It is indeed
    as you've described it. The CD formats used for data are different from the
    format (called CD-DA, for digital audio) used for audio. The sectors used to
    store data are physically the same size on the disc, but they contain
    error-detection and correction codes (EDC/ECC) that aren't in audio sectors;
    this is why audio CDs hold more "data" than data CDs (CD-ROM, CD-ROM XA, CD-I,
    and lots more formats).

    To make a long story short, with "data" CDs, no data loss is possible. Either
    you get an exact copy of the file, byte for byte, or you get nothing (like a
    read or write error, or more likely the dreaded "buffer underrun" error). With
    audio CDs, though, things are different. In fact, all CD audio data contains
    errors; it's a fact of life. There is error-correction circuitry built into
    all CD players which catches (and corrects) the worst errors, through some
    very clever mechanisms involving matrix arithmetic, sector interleaving and
    other stuff, but other errors get through. (There's actually a hierarchy of
    errors, which I forget the details on at the moment.)

    The upshot of this is that it is practically impossible to make a perfect copy
    of an audio CD. There will always be a few bits different between original and
    copy; in fact, it's difficult to even start the copy in the exact same place
    as the original. But the differences are generally so minute as to be
    undetectable to the ear.
     
    David Nebenzahl, Jan 1, 2004
  18. Michael Scarpitti

    John Guest

    I think it's "Bhopal" and it should make a good toner.


    Regards,

    John S. Douglas, Photographer - http://www.darkroompro.com
    Please remove the "_" when replying via email
     
    John, Jan 1, 2004
  19. Michael Scarpitti

    John Guest

    Hmmmm, where have I heard that before ?

    ;>)


    Regards,

    John S. Douglas, Photographer - http://www.darkroompro.com
    Please remove the "_" when replying via email
     
    John, Jan 1, 2004
  20. Michael Scarpitti

    Tom Phillips Guest

    I'll defer to you guys on this on. What you describe is my own
    experience with burning CD-Rs.
    I guess that means no music pirate is a true audiophile, just a wanna be :)
    I don't know, some of those audio guys are more anal about music than
    Adrian Monk is about spit on a sidewalk. (In case some don't know, Monk
    is a paranoid phobic detective on USA cable...)
     
    Tom Phillips, Jan 1, 2004
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