Discussion in 'Kodak' started by Eros Antonellini, Aug 23, 2004.

  1. Hy,
    anyone tried double weight Kodak Polymax Fine art?
    What do you think about this paper?

    Eros Antonellini, Aug 23, 2004
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  2. I've been an Ilford Multigrade user for a long time, but I wanted to try
    some Polymax Fine Art to see how it performed compared to the Ilford paper.
    It is obviously cooler than Multigrade, but the real eye opener came when I
    did some experiments to see what contrast was achieved with Polymax contrast
    filters and with Ilford Mulltigrade filters.

    This required printing a number of step wedges which were selenium toned,
    dried, and then read with an XRite densitometer. I then plotted the
    characteristic curves.

    The biggest difference is the lack of the "vc hump" in the Polymax when
    using low-constrast filters. The characteristic curve is dead smooth all the
    way down to PM filter # -1 which yields a grade 0 on my coldlight enlarger
    head. Kodak has done some nice work here!

    Multigrade has the traditional vc hump caused by the interaction of the two
    contrast layers in the emulsion. This effect is visible from MG filter #00
    through #1/2. By filter #1 it's gone and the remaining curves are smooth.

    I put a comparison graph on the web showing the two papers at their lowest
    contrast settings:


    Another bonus is that the Polymax achieves slightly blacker blacks than the
    Ilford Multigrade (both measured after toning).

    The resulting pictures are very nice from my 35mm Tri-X negatives. I just
    bought a couple more boxes of Polymax to use as a regular paper.

    The only little complaint that I have is that the edges of the PM prints
    "fray" a bit after handling and washing. It doesn't show much when there's a
    white border, but it was obvious on my mostly black step wedge prints, and
    will be also on contact proofs.

    Bill Schneider
    William Schneider, Aug 24, 2004
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  3. Eros Antonellini

    John Guest

    It's OK but I prefer Galerie.


    John S. Douglas, Photographer - http://www.darkroompro.com
    Please remove the "_" when replying via email
    John, Aug 24, 2004
  4. Eros Antonellini

    Dan Quinn Guest

    Galerie is Ilford's only Graded Fiber Base paper. They also
    produce at least one Graded RC paper.
    Polymax is Kodak's last Fiber Base paper; Poly... , a VC
    projection speed print paper on a Fiber Base and at my last look,
    of all things, available in single as well as double weight.
    Who says Kodak does not cater to the nich market?
    Lest we not forget Azo, still being produced. But, where, when,
    and WHY did the SW, FB, GR paper disappear? Lots of double and
    even museum weight Fiber Base but no Single weight. Dan
    Dan Quinn, Aug 24, 2004
  5. Eros Antonellini

    Jazztptman Guest

    Dan said: >>Polymax is Kodak's last Fiber Base paper; ........ and at my last
    look, of all things, available in single as well as double weight.<<

    Not any more. Kodak just announced the single weight was going away. And along
    with all those other papers you mentioned which are no longer around, I
    understand Ilford is in financial trouble and looking for a buyer.

    Jazztptman, Aug 24, 2004
  6. Eros Antonellini

    Ron Todd Guest

    AFAIK, AZO is being kept in production only by the efforts of Michael
    Smith and Paula Chamlee. Something about, every year, they risk their
    own capital (dollars) to make the minimum necessary bulk purchase
    from Kodak to keep the line in production.

    The others disappear because no one else is willing to risk there own
    money to keep them alive.

    Time for a reality check: Talk is cheap, money is dear.
    Ron Todd, Aug 24, 2004
  7. Eros Antonellini

    Dan Quinn Guest

    B&H carries Azo. Likely there are others here and overseas.
    I'd have thought the less expensive, quicker washing and drying
    Single weight to have been more popular.
    "... No one ..." as in 1? I think Azo is available in a Single
    weight. Dan
    Dan Quinn, Aug 25, 2004
  8. Dan Quinn wrote (in part):
    Ages ago, I tried single weight and hated it. It tended to curl up too
    much. Furthermore, if there was the slightest irregularity in my dry mount
    tissue, even a single whisker of dust, it tended to show through. Double
    weight did not have this problem for me, so I abandonned single weight
    after one box.
    Jean-David Beyer, Aug 25, 2004
  9. Eros Antonellini

    John Guest

    But they aren't actively promoting it. Of course Michael is.
    And you forgot to mention curlier..


    John S. Douglas, Photographer - http://www.darkroompro.com
    Please remove the "_" when replying via email
    John, Aug 25, 2004
  10. Eros Antonellini

    Dan Quinn Guest

    Now that really galls me; you and J. D. Beyer. If you two
    knew how to dry print paper that thought would have never entered
    your minds.
    I made big bucks, for a college student, many years ago drying
    that single weight in blotter rolls; nice very nearly flat prints.
    That single weight is all they dished up in my three years in
    the service. All that and some newspaper work were glossy or mat
    dried on 'flat' or rotary bed print dryers. Dan
    Dan Quinn, Aug 26, 2004
  11. understand Ilford is in financial trouble and looking for a buyer.

    Hasn't that been the case since day aught?
    Nicholas O. Lindan, Aug 26, 2004
  12. Eros Antonellini

    John Guest

    Take it EZ Dan !

    I'm sure it can be done but I doubt if it would compare to DW
    when processed identically.


    John S. Douglas, Photographer - http://www.darkroompro.com
    Please remove the "_" when replying via email
    John, Aug 26, 2004
  13. Eros Antonellini

    Matteo Guest

    I would like to know which is the best developer for the Kodak Polymax Fine
    Art Double Weight: Dektol or Polymax ??
    Matteo, Aug 27, 2004
  14. I like D-72, but substituting 100ml of 1% benzotriazole in water for the
    KBr. IIRC, Ansel Adams used Dektol for everything near the end of his career.

    I used to use lots of different developers for paper. My other favorite
    was Ansco 113 (Amidol), but after a lot of testing, I concluded that they
    were all alike except:

    1.) Amidol required about double the exposure of other paper developers.
    2.) The color I liked with Amidol was a result not of the developing
    agent, but the restrainere. It was then that I started mixing D-72
    (essentially Dektol) and using bzt instead of KBr.

    The miracles of deeper blacks, etc., seem due to increased exposure of the
    print, not some mysterious property of the developer.
    Jean-David Beyer, Aug 27, 2004
  15. Jean D,

    I have found that adding a bit of bromine to dektol also will give a
    deeper black without pushing the highlights to grey. Probably the same
    as using benzotriazole as it allows greater exposure.

    Frank Calidonna, Aug 27, 2004
  16. I sure would not want liquid bromine in my darkroom.
    Perhaps, as you say, adding it to a paper developer will give deeper blacks.

    The reason I prefer benzotriazole to bromide is that bromide tends to give
    prints a disagreable (to me) greenish tint in the blacks, and bzt is free
    from that. It very much depends on the color of the viewing light, though.
    Jean-David Beyer, Aug 27, 2004
  17. try Orthozite, by Edwal. It's a liquid, usable at room temperature.

    M. Apparition, Aug 28, 2004
  18. Why bother? I mix up 1& benzotriazole in 1/2 litre bottles and it works fine.
    Jean-David Beyer, Aug 28, 2004
  19. Eros Antonellini

    BertS Guest

    I would be interested in mixing up some D72 and D76 but substitute the bromide
    with benzotriazole.

    Anyone have an idea how much to use to replace the bromide in those?

    BertS, Aug 29, 2004
  20. I put 100ml to 125ml of 1% benzotriazole int 4 litres of D-72 stock for
    the papers I use, including polymax. Since I use D-76 only for film, it
    needs no restrainer.
    Jean-David Beyer, Aug 29, 2004
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