Lawsuit over image use

Discussion in 'Photography' started by tony cooper, Sep 15, 2012.

  1. tony cooper

    Alan Browne Guest

    The case is not extreme in the least.
     
    Alan Browne, Sep 15, 2012
    #21
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  2. tony cooper

    Eric Stevens Guest


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ticket_cases seems to describe relevant
    British law. I don't know that US law would be very much different.
     
    Eric Stevens, Sep 16, 2012
    #22
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  3. tony cooper

    Eric Stevens Guest

    If you are referring to the picture I think you are, the picture
    wasn't a spontaneous photograph of someone in the street. It was
    carefully arranged by Brian Brake and I would expect there was some
    form of model release.
     
    Eric Stevens, Sep 16, 2012
    #23
  4. tony cooper

    Savageduck Guest

    Two different photographs. The Brian Brake "Monsoon Girl" was shot in
    1960 in India, and he used a young Indian agency model.

    The Steve McCurry NatGeo cover shot of the "Afghan Girl" was shot in a
    refugee camp in pakistan in 1984, and she remained unidentified until
    2002. By then she had returned to a remote village in Afghanistan, and
    was married. McCurry had to obtain permission from her husband to get
    shots of her at that time. He was limited in what he was able to shoot
    without her face covered by a burqa.
     
    Savageduck, Sep 16, 2012
    #24
  5. tony cooper

    PeterN Guest

    There are cases to the contrary in NY, but mostly dealing with attempts
    to be absolved from negligence. We call them adhesion contracts. No
    matter what your parking claim ticket says on the back, if the attendant
    gets drunk and smacks up you car, the establishment is liable.
    If they show your image as a fan, you have little rights.
    Several years ago a young lady was wearing a Giants logo on her
    sweatshirt. the word "Giants" was practically horizontal. Her image
    could be freely published.
     
    PeterN, Sep 16, 2012
    #25
  6. tony cooper

    PeterN Guest

    There is a principle of assumption of a risk.

    If you get hurt by a baseball, in the normal course of play, you have
    assumed the risk of injury.

    When a model plane used as part of a half time show killed someone, the
    deceased was held not to have assumed that risk. IIRC the case was
    settled out of Court, and the ruling not published.
     
    PeterN, Sep 16, 2012
    #26
  7. tony cooper

    tony cooper Guest

    This is about the fourth of fifth time "neglect" has been used in
    posts on this subject. The word that should be used is "negligence",
    not "neglect". A property owner can allow the property to fall into
    neglect without exposing himself to liability as long as he is not
    negligent in allowing people to be exposed to danger.
     
    tony cooper, Sep 16, 2012
    #27
  8. tony cooper

    Mxsmanic Guest

    It's extreme in assimilating a simple release to a commercial modeling
    contract. The former is reasonable on a ticket, the latter is not.
     
    Mxsmanic, Sep 16, 2012
    #28
  9. tony cooper

    Mxsmanic Guest

    There was no model release. Photographers in those situations generally do not
    seek releases, since the intended use is editorial. NG depended on the
    likelihood that the girl would never realize that her image had been used
    commercially around the world and would not come looking for NG with a lawyer.
     
    Mxsmanic, Sep 16, 2012
    #29
  10. tony cooper

    Mxsmanic Guest

    For clarity, this is the image I was referring to (the first one, when she was
    around 12 years old). No release, and yet it was used commercially.
     
    Mxsmanic, Sep 16, 2012
    #30
  11. tony cooper

    Robert Coe Guest

    : Eric Stevens writes:
    :
    : > If you are referring to the picture I think you are, the picture
    : > wasn't a spontaneous photograph of someone in the street. It was
    : > carefully arranged by Brian Brake and I would expect there was some
    : > form of model release.
    :
    : There was no model release. Photographers in those situations generally do not
    : seek releases, since the intended use is editorial. NG depended on the
    : likelihood that the girl would never realize that her image had been used
    : commercially around the world and would not come looking for NG with a lawyer.

    In what venue was the litigation undertaken? Pakistan? A U.S. state? The
    District of Columbia? Whose responsibility was it to prove that the courts in
    that venue had jurisdiction and/or that U.S. law was applicable?

    The lack of a model release doesn't mean that the model will win her case. I
    suspect that in the U.S. (e.g., in the Florida case) the model would still
    have to prove that the publisher of the picture understood that payment was
    expected. The absence of a model release might or might not make that easier
    to do, depending on the circumstances. As I understand the Florida case, the
    picture was a candid shot and the woman didn't know she was "modelling". If
    so, the blabbing she did about how it offended her to have people think she
    worked as a model, will likely not be helpful to her case.

    But I stand by my guess (and that of several others in the group) that the
    Florida case will be settled out of court.

    Bob
     
    Robert Coe, Sep 16, 2012
    #31
  12. You didn't list "claim to the first-born child", you only listed
    cancellation or shifting date or location, but you agree with
    the limitation. Good, there is a line between OK and not OK even
    when it's listed on the ticket in your opinion.

    Expecting to find yourself on TV broadcasts on or online in a
    report about the game is one thing, being the model who wasn't
    asked and wasn't paid in an ad campain is something different.
    I'd draw the line mentioned above between them, but that's only
    me and my diffuse feelings, not a legal opinion.

    -Wolfgang
     
    Wolfgang Weisselberg, Sep 16, 2012
    #32
  13. tony cooper

    tony cooper Guest

    She might settle for season tickets to the Magic. I wonder, if she
    does, if her lawyer will take her seat for 40% of the games.
     
    tony cooper, Sep 16, 2012
    #33
  14. tony cooper

    Robert Coe Guest

    :
    : >: Eric Stevens writes:
    : >:
    : >: > If you are referring to the picture I think you are, the picture
    : >: > wasn't a spontaneous photograph of someone in the street. It was
    : >: > carefully arranged by Brian Brake and I would expect there was some
    : >: > form of model release.
    : >:
    : >: There was no model release. Photographers in those situations generally do not
    : >: seek releases, since the intended use is editorial. NG depended on the
    : >: likelihood that the girl would never realize that her image had been used
    : >: commercially around the world and would not come looking for NG with a lawyer.
    : >
    : >In what venue was the litigation undertaken? Pakistan? A U.S. state? The
    : >District of Columbia? Whose responsibility was it to prove that the courts in
    : >that venue had jurisdiction and/or that U.S. law was applicable?
    : >
    : >The lack of a model release doesn't mean that the model will win her case. I
    : >suspect that in the U.S. (e.g., in the Florida case) the model would still
    : >have to prove that the publisher of the picture understood that payment was
    : >expected. The absence of a model release might or might not make that easier
    : >to do, depending on the circumstances. As I understand the Florida case, the
    : >picture was a candid shot and the woman didn't know she was "modelling". If
    : >so, the blabbing she did about how it offended her to have people think she
    : >worked as a model, will likely not be helpful to her case.
    : >
    : >But I stand by my guess (and that of several others in the group) that the
    : >Florida case will be settled out of court.
    :
    : She might settle for season tickets to the Magic. I wonder, if she
    : does, if her lawyer will take her seat for 40% of the games.

    The lawyer probably has season tickets already. Maybe she does too. She's a
    social worker, but maybe her husband is rich.

    Bob
     
    Robert Coe, Sep 16, 2012
    #34
  15. tony cooper

    tony cooper Guest

    Well, it would be cruel and unusual punishment to sentence someone to
    watch the Orlando Magic every home game in the season.

    Free tickets would not be enough for me. Parking in the arena parking
    garage is $20. If you are willing to walk some distance, you can park
    in other garages for $10, and if you walk even further, $5.00. From
    any of them, it will take a minimum of 30 minutes to get out of the
    downtown area due to traffic.

    Free tickets, with a couple of beers and hot dogs, will put you back
    at least $50. Take your wife and/or kids, and it's a hundred dollar
    evening.
     
    tony cooper, Sep 17, 2012
    #35
  16. tony cooper

    Eric Stevens Guest

    SavageDuck has straightened me out. I was thinking of the wrong
    photograph.
     
    Eric Stevens, Sep 17, 2012
    #36
  17. tony cooper

    Mxsmanic Guest

    There was no litigation. The girl and/or her family never sued, and probably
    didn't know it could sue, and probably didn't even know how the image was
    being used.
    Commercial models are routinely paid, no publisher can claim ignorance of this
    fact.
    The blabbing after the fact won't make much difference.
    Most cases are.
     
    Mxsmanic, Sep 17, 2012
    #37
  18. tony cooper

    PeterN Guest

    You too shall become assimilated.
     
    PeterN, Sep 17, 2012
    #38
  19. tony cooper

    R S H Guest

    What is ignored in this whole stream of discussion is 'what if she was a fan of the OTHER team? Not everyone attending a basketball game is
    a fan of the team whose home stadium is being used.

    RsH
     
    R S H, Sep 17, 2012
    #39
  20. tony cooper

    Savageduck Guest

    Check the jersey. A non-fan isn't likely to wear a Dwight Howard #12
    Orlando jersey.
     
    Savageduck, Sep 17, 2012
    #40
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