Liquid Edition 6.0 Pro (vs Avid, FCP, Premier Pro)

Discussion in 'Professional Video Production' started by doc, Sep 6, 2005.

  1. doc

    doc Guest

    Can anyone give me some of their comments on this product versus Avid, FCP,
    Premier Pro?

    I create commercials (currently in Studio 8) and want to upgrade to get more
    effects and better titling AND ALSO to create movies. I have a client who
    is laying down footage and want me to edit & dub the material to VHS
    (export), CD, DVD and streaming web content, and they are recording it in
    HDV.

    Please anyone with experience in Liquid Edition and one or more of the
    others named above, please comment on whether or not I'd be right in my
    selection of LE6.9Pro or if I'd be much better off with one of the others &
    why.

    Thanks to all in advance.

    Doc
     
    doc, Sep 6, 2005
    #1
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  2. doc

    AnthonyR Guest

    Hey Doc,

    I see you're looking for the easy way out, but who isn't? You want others
    who already tried them all and spent
    foolish money testing and learned the long way to just tell you what to buy
    and save you all the hassle.

    Again, who wouldn't. But IMHO this is to be found easily on these groups,
    because different people feel differently
    about each program, it has a lot to do with what you learned on and how
    comfortable you are.

    I only can offer the advice to try the free version samples of each and see
    what feels right for you
    and then make a big effort to learn it well, but also learn the bugs and
    quirks and find workarounds
    as I think every software has these somewhere. LE6 from what I see is
    software that runs better with
    faster hardware, esp with HDV. And so make sure your equiptment can handle
    the HDV files well first.

    With the others you probably will need more dedicated hardware or even
    different PC platform, HDV is more
    expensive to edit one way or another, time or money.

    Good Luck, and I hope others do offer you their wisdom and advice as well,
    AnthonyR.
     
    AnthonyR, Sep 6, 2005
    #2
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  3. I gave my opinion back down the list a bit, but I'll say it again - NOT
    Liquid Edition, you will be sorry, just as I was.
     
    bernard.newnham, Sep 6, 2005
    #3
  4. doc

    Teeafit Guest

    Well, let's put it this way - even as I type this, my new Liquid
    Edition Pro 6 system is warming up the other side of the office.
    Having worked with Premiere when I first had my own NLE, I moved to
    Edition 4 having seen a very interesting demo of its Fast predecessor -
    what impressed me was the background rendering, compared with Premiere,
    where (in those days at least) you had to wait what SEEMED like hours
    to be able to view even a simple transition.

    I'd also had experience with Sony ES7 - don't go there! NLEs need to
    be designed by experienced editors, not corporate software geeks!

    Admittedly my first experience with Edition (v4) was not happy due to
    some unidentified glitch in the capture card. Pinnacle UK started to
    be helpful, and then suddenly went quiet on me. After 6-8 frustrating
    months I contacted the CEO of Pinnacle USA - within days my machine was
    collected and sent to a UK retailer for attention. Unfortunately (from
    their point of view, but not mine) we were now into v5, and my machine
    wasn't man enough to run it. As a result I received a free hardware
    upgrade as well as a software one, which was appreciated.

    It's probably true of any NLE that you quickly push it to the max and
    outstrip its capacity. Even after an upgrade to v5.5 I was beginning
    to find it got indigestion if I asked it to work on (f'rinstance) a
    50-minute programme with much colour-corrected footage, CSO 'green
    screen' sections, and (most important) rostruming around large still
    files. The cure is to give the machine (and your own eyes and wrists)
    a break by re-booting while you go and get a coffee. At the end of a
    long session, I also deleted all the render files and let them rebuild
    ready for the next day.

    I'm particularly attracted to v6 because of the multi-camera
    facilities. It's also HD-ready - I don't have any plans yet to go down
    that route, but inevitably I will need to do so before long. But
    equally inevitably my old machine was too elderly (3 years??) to be
    expandable, so I've invested in a complete new machine, with the
    fastest processor, largest storage and most RAM that I could afford.
    The old machine will be passed on to a youngster starting in the
    business.

    The new machine arrived 3 days ago, and I started loading footage into
    it yesterday. I've not started to edit an actual timeline yet, but it
    seems to be very fast. Will I be pleased with my purchase? I very
    much hope so. When the Avid takeover (?) first became news, I was a
    bit wary of upgrading to another Pinnacle product, but I visited trade
    exhibitions and looked at the opposition before deciding. EVERY NLE
    has its good and bad points, and I decided that I would rather stick
    with the software that I was familiar with. There were also financial
    considerations, such as Avid's breakout box costing almost as much as a
    new computer. I was also assured by a retailer who I respect that he
    was confident that Avid wouldn't turn its back on the large and loyal
    Pinnacle customer base, and that even if Edition v8 (apparently v7 is
    already in Beta) becomes an Avid product in a Pinnacle shell, it would
    still be an easy transfer for established users.

    You get what you pay for, but I've had footage edited on my v5.5 up on
    screen at a Royal Television Society awards presentation alongside
    sequences produced at a professional broadcast studio, and you can't
    tell the difference. I'm looking forward to getting to grips with
    v6... so I'll stop typing and get on with it!

    GRAEME ALDOUS
    Yorkshire
     
    Teeafit, Sep 7, 2005
    #4
  5. doc

    mmaker Guest

    I have to agree: I had a similar experience trying to get _any_ kind of
    response from Pinnacle in Europe, whereas as soon as I contacted their
    support staff in America they sorted out my problem in a few days.

    Mark
     
    mmaker, Sep 7, 2005
    #5
  6. doc

    doc Guest

    hey ur right on trying to avoid all the blunder and costs by getting the
    insight from others as to what works and what dosen't. i been there and
    done that (so to speak financially) and would like to avoid it this time :eek:)

    do u have a prefernce? and if so, why? and btw, thanks in advance a hill
    o' beans worth for the input.

    doc
     
    doc, Sep 9, 2005
    #6
  7. doc

    doc Guest

    hey there jolly old chap (no pun intended if by chance ur not of the mature
    generation as am i :eek:) sounds like a true satisfied customer. i'm trialing
    an LE 6 version and found that it will import my studio 8 and studio 9
    projects (YEAH!) and though a lot more complicated than s8 or s9, looks like
    a lot more bells and whistles to please my appetite for commercials,
    training videos, and demo's.

    i just hear all this 'beef' about HD and HDV coming on and i just wanted to
    make sure that i'm preparing my business for at least some kind of HD format
    so that i can at least be near the lead of the edge :eek:)

    one thing for sure is that at least it's still running two days after the
    install. with regard to studio 9 all i've been able to do with it is
    capture (unfortunately) material into native studio 9 avi format and since
    having done that studio 9 has crashed continuously since july 3. i've been
    on the phone with pinnacle support and upper level extended support and NO
    ONE can figure out what the quirk is. it boots and if you do nothing but
    just stare at the screen, it will crash within 12 to 48 seconds. if you
    immediately click any thing on the screen on boot up while the hour glass
    shows busy but just ignore it as if it were a cursor, then studio 9 starts
    and may even let you load a project or footage and then within 3 to 21
    minutes it will crash without fail. in fact, if you start up in the latter
    format and just walk away and watch the screen touching nothing, it will
    crash within 6 to 12 minutes on its own. it's a joke. pinnacle says i need
    more puter, yet as i tell them studio 8 ran like a clock on an athlon
    thunderbird 1.2 Ghz 400 fsb with 512 ram with 40 to 60 processes running.
    the newest machine in august is:

    pentium d dual core 3.0 ghz each with 1 mb L2 cache each 800 fsb
    1 gb 4200 ddr2 @ 533 mhz ram

    and this replaced an athlon 64 bit 3200+ 2.8 ghz 1600 fsb with 2 gb ram
    which support said wasn't enough machine to handle studio 9 cause it was at
    100% process performance

    hmmmmmmm, since the ath ran the same exact way and worked, hmmmmmmm, what's
    wrong with this picture?

    doc
     
    doc, Sep 9, 2005
    #7
  8. doc

    doc Guest

    i apparently missed the thread to which you refer way back down the line.
    what do you feel is the largest obstacle to tackle/overcome with LE 6 and
    HD?

    doc
     
    doc, Sep 9, 2005
    #8
  9. doc

    doc Guest

    see above. i been on and off the phone with them for two months. in fact,
    i've rebooted the two differnet computers from the ground up and installed
    all the hardware (video/sound cards) which they have recommended and
    expanded my computer budget by 200% from what i started out intending to
    spend and all for a $100 piece of software :eek:( looking back i'd classify
    myself as stupid EXCEPT i ultimately wanted either dual processor or dual
    core (almost identical to dual processor except with one die - so long as
    the bus is configured to receive input) and more ram capacity (now can go to
    4 gb) with pci express video (which i now have) and thus, i just moved to
    the next level early. :eek:)

    doc
     
    doc, Sep 9, 2005
    #9
  10. doc

    AnthonyR Guest

    What's up doc?

    :)

    I don't blame you to want to avoid blunder, i just meant if i write now, ok,
    get this and that and you're all set.
    End of story, that's the best, trust me, just go get it, cause i say so.
    Would that help?
    All it would do, is cause more people to voice in why this and that's no
    good.

    Not everyone uses or agrees on what is the best to use so I was just saying,
    if only it was that easy.
    I personally have LE 5.5 and the Premiere pro suite 1.5, encore, audition
    etc... I use the adobe stuff more
    cause I was use to adobe from photoshop for years now, LE 5 was hard for me
    to learn, and I got 5.5 as
    an upgrade but never really got to like it, personally, I find the way it
    saves files to be difficult for me to understand where
    they are and how to delete them etc. Not from in the program, I get that,
    just in windows in general, the way it names and saves stuff.
    But that's not a major thing. I liked the LE6 demo, as far as multicamera
    editing features and the HDV capability but not enough
    to spend money on when I decided to just use adobe stuff soley.

    So again, if I say get adobe premiere Pro, don't question me, will you do
    it?
    No, then you will ask why? and I have to prove to you why I chose to use
    what i did.
    So why should I have to prove I made a good decision everytime another
    person asks what is best for him to get?
    That's all I meant, try and understand my point of view.
    I feel it's more helpful for you if you decide on what feels better after
    trying the demos.
    They all edit video, and depending on the features you need buy the program
    that offers those features.
    I don't know about no hill of beans, i am a city boy! LOL

    :)

    AnthonyR
     
    AnthonyR, Sep 9, 2005
    #10
  11. doc

    doc Guest

    that's cool. well, i was raised in the country and moved to the city and as
    the saying goes, "you can take a boy out of the country but u can't take the
    country outta the boy :eek:)"

    thanks so much for the help.

    we talked to canopus today about a solution and their checking on our camera
    format to see if it is compatible with their system (cine'alta) and it's a
    true HD cam and that makes it a lot more challenging so i understand :eek:(

    doc
     
    doc, Sep 9, 2005
    #11
  12. Their "Edius HD" system should.

    -martin-
     
    Martin Heffels, Sep 9, 2005
    #12
  13. doc

    TonyP Guest


    As I and others have said, no one system is perfect. No one system will
    do everything. AND, no one system is crash proof. LE has been as hard
    working as Premeire 6.5 was for me. After using LE, I find it difficult
    to go back to Premeire. These are only my personal opinions. You have to
    decide for yourself.
    One thing about purchasing from http://www.videoguys.com/ is there 30day
    policy.
    When it was time to move from my DPS Editbay, I bought a Matrox RT2500.
    I chose it over the then Pinnacle DV500Plus because it offered what I
    wanted (even though it cost more). Neither I nor Matrox tech support
    could get it up and running on my "compatibly listed" computer. Their
    tech support was stellar in trying to get me up and running, but to no
    avail. I called Videoguys (a short drive for me) and exchanged it for a
    DV500. Stuck it in the nearest open PCI slot and was editing in a couple
    of minutes.
    There prices were very competitive and the return policy was great.
    And no, I do not nor have I ever worked for them or have any other
    relationship other than being a paying customer.
     
    TonyP, Sep 10, 2005
    #13
  14. doc

    doc Guest

    wow, sounds liek you've had an excellent experience with video guys for
    sure.

    that install/compatibility issue sounds like one i went through on studio 9
    and eventually just gave up. we started working on it on 3 July and after
    numerous telephone calls to tech support (some daily) and numerous emails
    with extended support (the next level up) and them even having me install
    software on my computer so that they could "see" the insides working, on the
    second aniversery of the problem (9/3) i gave up and returned the thing as
    defective along with all the documented emails with pinnacle tech support.
    it was a disaster. i was formerly running studio 8 on an athlon thunderbird
    with 1.2Ghz clock and on the new machine with dual core 3.0 Ghz with 1 Mb L2
    cache on board per channel, studio 9 just crashed within 3 to 20 seconds if
    one did nothing but wait for it to boot :eek:(

    thanks for the input.

    doc
     
    doc, Sep 10, 2005
    #14
  15. doc

    doc Guest

    WHOA!!! canopus got back to us and what a WOW!!!! turns out the sony
    cinealta has a proprietary codec that isn't on the market yet other than
    through sony and in order or READ the HDcam codec one has to use their
    editing box which is over $20,000. geez, this is a worse caudesec then
    going with apple/mac :eek:)

    doc
     
    doc, Sep 10, 2005
    #15
  16. That's strange. Maybe their marketing-people were wrong? I don't know what
    else to make out of this:

    From http://www.canopus.us/US/products/EDIUS_HD/pt_EDIUS_HD.asp

    Did they say anything about this?

    cheers

    -martin-
     
    Martin Heffels, Sep 10, 2005
    #16
  17. doc

    TonyP Guest

    Certainly did and highly recommend them.
    Just as a "lark", ever try running Studio on your "old" computer? I have
    Studio on the same computer as Liquid Edition. No problems for me. It's
    a basic editing program for the quick stuff. Now, with Studio 10 on the
    horizon, it will support both HDV and surround sound. You might wait and
    see how that goes. http://tinyurl.com/bps8u and
    http://www.mikeshaw.co.uk/newslett.htm
    no problem
     
    TonyP, Sep 10, 2005
    #17
  18. doc

    doc Guest

    hmmmmm, looks great but how do i get it? i went to the pinnacle website and
    couldn't find a BUY button? :eek:(

    doc
     
    doc, Sep 11, 2005
    #18
  19. doc

    doc Guest

    yes, they said they would have the Sony CineAlta HDcam codec available in
    March that engineering was working on the project and Sony was working with
    them to get a total solution. that's good news. however, they did call
    friday and offered yet two other options which included FCP and a PC
    solution with Avid and a special capture card that cost $1500 BUT that Avid
    would do a 4:2:2 capture while the Mac solution with the same card would
    give us 4:4:4 and though i have no idea what all that means, what i was told
    was that in order to do realtime HDcam we would have to have the 3 - 4's :eek:)

    btw, any idea where i could get a bunch of 8 to 20 second clips that would
    show transisions, FX effects, 2D, 3D, etc. that would be unbranded? i want
    to show our founder this software capabilities on 15 Sept but don't have
    time to "learn & do" a short movie that would show what we could do if we
    had both LE 6 and Edius Pro 3 :eek:)

    doc

     
    doc, Sep 11, 2005
    #19
  20. doc

    TonyP Guest

    If you are referring to Studio 10, it isn't out "yet"!
     
    TonyP, Sep 12, 2005
    #20
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