Lith film emulation

Discussion in 'Darkroom Developing and Printing' started by piterengel, Oct 21, 2007.

  1. It seems to me that if you are sure you used the solution for D-85
    that you prepared, and get blank without even the edge numbers and
    trademarks, before you even fixed the film, then the developer solution
    must have been prepared incorrectly or the chemicals you used may
    have been mislabelled. Assuming you are using 35mm film.

    In my experience, the sheet litho film (Kodak 2553, IIRC) not only has
    no edge notches, making printing on the correct side something of an
    artistic experience, but also it has no edge markings.

    Diluting the developper 10x will not help you.
     
    Jean-David Beyer, Oct 28, 2007
    #21
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  2. piterengel

    piterengel Guest

    I'm sure both to have developed and not fixed the film and to have
    usaed the right chemicals. I think simply D-85 is too strong and
    completely unsuitable for Efke 35 mm film. I suspect that the critical
    component is acetone, used instead of paraformaldehyde as said before.
    Being this the "infectant" but necessary component for ultracontrast
    developer, maybe it is too effective into bath.
    P.
     
    piterengel, Oct 28, 2007
    #22
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  3. piterengel

    piterengel Guest

    I've found on an old italian darkroom cookbook these two developers.

    1) FERRANIA R7

    PART A
    sodium sulfite 45 g
    hydroquinone 10 g
    sodium carbonate 30 g
    potassium bromide 2 g
    water to 500 ml

    PART B
    sodium hydroxyde 8 g
    water to 500 ml

    Mix Part A and Part B.

    2) AGFA 22

    metol 0.8 g
    sodium sulfite 40 g
    hydroquinone 8 g
    potassium carbonate 50 g
    potassium bromide 5 g
    water to 1000 ml

    Both two are given to be very high contrast developers. What do you
    think about them?
    P.
     
    piterengel, Oct 28, 2007
    #23
  4. I never heard of using acetone instead of paraformaldehyde. That might
    be a mistake in the formula. The only thing a "too strong" developer
    might do is make the image too contrasty (sort-of impossible when
    developing lith film), or too foggy. You are not getting fog. You are
    not getting anything. If your film really should have edge markings,
    then you are not developing enough (at all, actually).
    There are a lot of formulae going around. Most of only historical
    interest. I know nothing about these. R7 seems like it would be a
    high contrast developer, but nothing like what you would want for
    lith film. Agfa 22 might be somewhat higher contrast than R7 or D76,
    but not what would normally be required for lith film.
     
    Jean-David Beyer, Oct 28, 2007
    #24
  5. piterengel

    piterengel Guest

    The fact is that EFKE KB 25 is NOT a lith film, but a normal b/w film.
    As I've said in the first post and in its title my pourpose is to try
    to emulate lith film using normal bw negatives choosing the
    appropriate developer. This because in Italy it is quite impossible to
    find real lith films. That's all.
    P.
     
    piterengel, Oct 28, 2007
    #25
  6. While I can sympathize with your frustration here, I think you're
    mistaken in thinking that somehow a developer that's "too strong" for
    film would give completely blank results. Think about it: if a developer
    is too strong (i.e., too active), you're going to get something like
    completely *black* film, not completely blank. Something else is
    happening here. (Sorry, don't know enough about photochemistry to be of
    any help.) Richard K.?
     
    David Nebenzahl, Oct 28, 2007
    #26
  7. I think you are looking in the wrong places.

    Lith film is very easily available in Italy. It's easily
    available everywhere - Ulan Bator to Ultima Thule.

    Finding it on the internet if you do not know the "magic word"
    is, of course, impossible.

    You might start with Agfa and ask them:

    http://www.agfa.com/en/gs/about_us/worldwide/index.jsp?countryId=108

    Or Kodak - though they tend to be hopeless, kinda like their web site.

    http://graphics.kodak.com/US/ContactUs/default.htm

    Or contact a local offset printer and ask them.

    You would be looking for someone like this, only located in
    Italy.
    http://www.valleylitho.com/acatalog/Valley_Litho_Supply_Printing_Supplies_179.html
     
    Nicholas O. Lindan, Oct 29, 2007
    #27
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