Mixing standard frames with widescreen frames

Discussion in 'Amateur Video Production' started by Brian, Nov 28, 2010.

  1. Brian

    Brian Guest

    Since I have a widescreen TV I've been turning on the widescreen
    option for my DV video camera and recording in widescreen.
    My problem is in mixing standard frame video with wide frame video
    (widescreen). If I was to mask the standard frame video with black
    bars at the top and bottom of the picture and setup the video editor
    for wide screen mode then would this solve the problem?

    Regards Brian
     
    Brian, Nov 28, 2010
    #1
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  2. Brian

    ushere Guest

    ?

    probably not. 4:3 is 4:3 and 16:9 is 16:9
     
    ushere, Nov 28, 2010
    #2
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  3. It depends, I guess, whether or not your SD camera shoots widescreen
    as cropped 4:3 or as anamorphic (squeezed) footage within the 4:3
    frame. In the first case, though, you are throwing away (with the black
    bars) a large amount of potential picture information, something you are
    not likely to want to do with SD. These days, if you can, shoot only HD;
    there are a few that are excellent and relatively cheap (and one that
    stands out, the Panasonic HDC-TM700). You can mix HD and SD if
    you REALLY must, but in general, the results are likely to be at least
    somewhat degraded by the use of the SD material. If I needed to mix
    SD and widescreen, I would likely choose either anamorphic-shot SD,
    or uncropped 4:3-shot material centered within the widescreen frame
    (with black bars on the sides).
    --DR
     
    David Ruether, Nov 28, 2010
    #3
  4. Brian

    Brian Guest

    Hi David
    You start to write about Widescreen but then you refer to HD. Are you
    saying that all HD camera's are widescreen?
    I brought my DV camera in 2003 and widescreen was not as popular then
    as it is now so it crops off some of the picture at the top and bottom
    when 16:9 option is selected for recording.

    Regards Brian
     
    Brian, Nov 28, 2010
    #4
  5. Brian

    Brian Guest

    Thanks Mark.
    I haven't thought of re-encoding the video when mixing different frame
    sizes. I like your ideas.
    Is it possible also to mix different frames rates (29.97 fps and 25
    fps) and re-encode the video?

    Regards Brian
     
    Brian, Nov 29, 2010
    #5
  6. [Trying to sort out an exchange that got flipped into email due to
    my posting mistake...]
    All consumer (and also all pro) HD cameras that I know of are widescreen.

    The SD widescreen formats were a kind of "sop" to try to duplicate the

    widescreen effect, but they were all with disadvantages since they were

    not truly 16:9 HD, and some even degraded the relatively low SD image

    quality even further when attempts were made to modify the format to 16x9.


    If it does it by "black-barring" the top and bottom the 4:3 frame, this is

    the worst way to do it in terms of retaining as much image quality as

    possible.

    --DR


    Thanks David, for your reply. Maybe I should continue to use
    the standard picture instead of widescreen as I'm losing information at the
    top and bottom of the picture. I might experiment in both formats to see
    what it looks like on my widescreen TV. Quality seems to be improving on
    camera's as even still photo camera's now record in either HD or 720 x 576
    and not the common 640 x 480. I have a feeling that very soon all video
    cameras will be HD widescreen camera's.

    Regards Brian

    -- The good ones are now... BTW, at this point if you are more interested
    -- in shooting video than with shooting both stills and video with the same
    -- camera, unless you are willing to spend VERY big bucks for the VERY
    -- few cameras that can do both well, stick with dedicated still and video
    -- cameras, although the Panasonic TM700 can shoot very passable stills
    -- and superb progressive-frame (or progressive converted to interlaced
    -- *in-camera*) HD video, with a camera priced well below $1000 in the
    -- US.
    -- DR
     
    David Ruether, Nov 29, 2010
    #6
  7. Brian

    Don Stauffer Guest

    I am amazed at how often the pros do not do it right on TV news
    broadcasts. In fact, they screw it up both ways, showing widescreen
    footage with side bars and skinny people as well as the narrow screen
    footage expanded and distorted.
     
    Don Stauffer, Nov 30, 2010
    #7
  8. Yes. I am trying to learn not to scream at them.

    No success so far :)
     
    Gene E. Bloch, Nov 30, 2010
    #8
  9. Yes, sigh...... 8^)
    --DR
     
    David Ruether, Nov 30, 2010
    #9
  10. Brian

    Brian Guest

    Brian thinks...maybe I won't look fat on TV if I ever get on TV <grin>
    TV advert...You too can look this slim if you buy this exercise
    equipment.

    If I have a choice of a large distorted picture or a normal small
    screen picture then I'd prefer the small screen.

    Regards Brian
     
    Brian, Dec 1, 2010
    #10
  11. Brian

    ushere Guest

    pet peeve - corporations showing well produced (read EXPENSIVE) internal
    4:3 promo's stretched on 16:9 in their reception area lcd's.

    chaorman might be a 'fat cat' - but does he have to look like one!?
     
    ushere, Dec 1, 2010
    #11
  12. 8^) One of my TV pet peeves is local and even national advertisers
    spending big bucks on TV ads, STILL in *SD* that look HORRIBLE
    (jaggy/fuzzy/just-generally-ugly) when broadcast on HD TV. Good HD
    cameras are now relatively cheap for doing this kind of work - and
    there is NO excuse I know of for doing this!
    --DR
    [Dang - it's snowing heavily, first time this year...]
     
    David Ruether, Dec 1, 2010
    #12
  13. Brian

    Brian Guest

    I normally use a HDMI connection from my Western Digital media player
    that plays videos from my external hard drive but I had trouble in
    getting my TV to select the correct ratio for the type of picture on
    the video I was playing as it make the people look fat. I did find
    that when I connected the Western Digital media player to the TV using
    A/V cable then I was able to select a suitable ratio for the video.
    The video had recorded a picture that was orginally in 4:3 ratio and I
    suspect the person who made the recording had their software setup to
    record in widescreen.

    A good time to cature snow pictures on your video camera David.
     
    Brian, Dec 1, 2010
    #13
  14. I suspect that the TV "assumes" that anything coming into the HDMI
    port is 16:9, even if it was not properly centered 4:3 within that format,
    and it will therefore stretch it to 16:9. It interesting to see, though, is how
    much 4:3 material is cleverly (but not entirely adequately) stretched to
    16:9 by applying a bit of stretching near the center, with progressively
    more stretching applied toward the edges (humorous, if someone is
    watched while crossing from one edge to the opposite). Mysterious to
    me is how geometric correctness of a grid can be maintained with this,
    with no straight line bending and without apparent grid proportional
    distortions. It does still look somewhat odd, though...;-)
    And be out in that cold, grey, slippery, wet stuff, having to protect the
    camera, and to put it into a sealed plastic bag when I bring it inside and
    then wait until it warms up to room temperature?!?!?!?!? No, thanks!
    I'll wait for warmer weather to come again, though that takes a minimum
    of 17 months around here! 8^)
    --DR
     
    David Ruether, Dec 2, 2010
    #14
  15. Brian

    Brian Guest

    The problem is that we are quick to judge and often the photograper is
    blaimed if the picture does not look right. The producer wants to
    deliver the best possible picture and it's beyond the producers
    control if the picture gets distorted due to showing it at the wrong
    ratio.

    The same problem happens when an action movie is shown on a small
    screen with low volume, low quality sound. Those that would have been
    an action movie on a big screen with surround sound would be more
    impressed with the movie than those that have watched in on a small
    TV.

    Also censorship can destory a good movie by the censor cutting out
    scenes in a movie. The story does not make sense, the build up to a
    scene is lost and one of the best scenes in the movie is missing.
    When Robocop was shown on TV they cut out the scene where a gang of
    men open fired on him. Everyone watching the movie on TV wondered how
    he died.

    Regards Brian
     
    Brian, Dec 3, 2010
    #15
  16. Another example of the above is the DVD of "Blow Up". The VHS
    copy (which I will keep) shows the scenes between the photographer
    leaving the work area of a factory, grungy from the days work as a
    (pretend) factory worker (to get photos), and his appearing on the
    street all cleaned up and about to get into his Rolls Royce. Missing
    are the transition scenes in the locker-room/showers, making for story
    confusion. And then there is the shortening of the "voluptuous" song
    scene in Roger Rabbit...;-)
    --DR
     
    David Ruether, Dec 3, 2010
    #16
  17. Brian

    Brian Guest

    That's why I like to watch an editors cut of a movie on DVD when you
    can get them as many of the scenes removed from the movie to shorten
    it for the picture theatre or TV are restored. One example is the
    first part of "Lord of the Rings - the fellowship of the ring" where
    the longer version told the audience more about the life of a Hobbit
    which was entertaining and made the story more enjoyable.

    Regards Brian
     
    Brian, Dec 4, 2010
    #17
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