Mostly OT: Really good gloves for shooting in very cold temps.

Discussion in 'Darkroom Developing and Printing' started by Some Dude, Dec 15, 2004.

  1. Some Dude

    Some Dude Guest

    Hi,

    as you can see I am good at off-topic postings sometimes. But you guys
    are the bestest everest to me so ...

    I'm looking for some "serious" shooting gloves that can at *least*
    handle 5 minutes without losing finger sensation in temps around -10f.
    Of course the caveat is that they have to be thin enough to use the
    controls, set flash settings, load film (not a requirement), etc.
    Ultimately a pair of gloves where I can use my hands and actually
    depress the shutter is what i'm going for.

    I've done the iso heet stuff hand warmers, etc, etc but I'm really
    thinking technology should be out there to give you a thin pair of
    gloves that are great.

    I've heard of LowePro gloves but have also heard that these aren't so
    "hot" either.

    Any tips from anyone?

    Thanks!
     
    Some Dude, Dec 15, 2004
    #1
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  2. Some Dude

    Joe Makowiec Guest

    How about silk glove liners inside a glove/mitten - cutoff fingers with a
    mitten 'flap' - see:

    http://www.ampro.co.nz/products/Manzella/manzella.htm

    and look for WS-20-FIN about half way down the page.[1]

    [1] This is not an endorsement; provided by way of illustration
     
    Joe Makowiec, Dec 15, 2004
    #2
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  3. Some Dude

    angryfilmguy Guest

    i wear full lenth mountain biker gloves... i find them quite good.
    they work well on a nikon F3
     
    angryfilmguy, Dec 15, 2004
    #3
  4. Nope. Can't be done.

    Leaving aside gloves made with vacuum:

    Thickness of insulation and lack of air circulation within
    the insulation are the two factors determining insulation efficiency.
    The material used for insulation has little bearing on insulation,
    though it does bear on weight, wettability, strength ...

    It's like cars: there is no substitute for cubic inches.
     
    Nicholas O. Lindan, Dec 15, 2004
    #4
  5. Some Dude

    Tom Phillips Guest

    Want warmth, wear mittens (wool, down, whatever.)
    Need dexterity, I'd insert a reasonably thick poly
    glove liner that can offer temporary protection
    against wind chill and handling cold equipment.
    Such a method should easily handle 5 minutes at
    a time at -10 before needing fingers rewarmed.

    Beyond that inexpensive option, check into what
    mountaineers use on Everest (gloves and liners.)
     
    Tom Phillips, Dec 15, 2004
    #5
  6. Some Dude

    jjs Guest

    Take what I have to say from experience as rather extreme, but I was trained
    for military arctic duty, and I have lived as a civilian in a climate that
    had temps to -40F (and you know that's not the so-called 'wind chill' which,
    if calculated, is like the dark side of the moon:)).

    There are two approaches to this issue. First, use a good, wool glove liner
    under a windproof mitten and remove the mitten to do the delicate work. You
    can buy civilian mittens that have a flap that lets you put your fingers
    through the palm area, therefore obviating the removal part. There are
    mittens that have a single 'trigger' finger exposed, but you don't put your
    finger in there until you need to. It's not a warm part of the system. A
    second approach is to use a 'muff' for the camera; it envelops the camera
    and your hands, leaving the lens and viewer exposed. Of course this is good
    for 35mm, maybe some MF, but not LF.
     
    jjs, Dec 15, 2004
    #6
  7. I have a pair of skiing gloves that work really well, but you have to
    remove them for shooting.
     
    uraniumcommittee, Dec 15, 2004
    #7
  8. I go you beat jjs - I experienced -54 degrees (F) in upstate NY - South
    Colton, 1970. Tht's nippy!! Thank God the air was absolutely still. But
    your advice on mittens and gloves is right on. I wear some wool glove/mitts
    that have a mitten top that folds back and "latches" with velco. The
    under-glove has exposed fingertips. Great for working. However, when its
    really cold you need to add a mitten shell over the outer mitten for
    additional trapped air. I use one that is cordura nylon with rubber palms.
    You can operate a snowmobile throttle, but not an F3.
    Now for the really bad news. Anytime you touch any very cold surface with
    bare fingertips it triggers an "automatic" response in you body.
    Essentially your cold fingertips send a message that they are loosing heat
    fast. Your brain unconciously responds by CUTTING the blood flow to the
    extremities to conserve warmth for the central core (trunk). After all, it
    reasons, you can live without 1 hand, but you only have 1 heart. Anyway,
    this is to say that touching a cold F3 may have the effect of making all
    your extremities colder. The simple rule is to never, ever touch bare metal
    with bare skin. That being said, maybe you can figure out how to deal with
    this issue. I'd minimize hand skin exposure, and then try to get them warm
    as quickly as possible - stuff your hand into a warming pocket in your
    parka. And those chemical hand warmers? They may work OK for you, but they
    make my hands sweat and wearing damp gloves causes them to be colder! But
    they might be worth a try.
     
    Pieter Litchfield, Dec 15, 2004
    #8
  9. Some Dude

    jjs Guest

    Okay. But did you have to pee? =8^}
     
    jjs, Dec 15, 2004
    #9
  10. For mountaineering etc. the advice is (was?) to add a silk
    glove under the wool glove under the down mitten under
    the windproof mitten. You don't want anything waterproof
    when it is very cold.
     
    Nicholas O. Lindan, Dec 15, 2004
    #10
  11. Might I add that foam pipe insulation on aluminum tripod legs makes
    them easier to hold in very cold weather. I also use poly fleece mittens
    that fold back to expose the fingers. They sell them in the hunting
    departments. A dummy battery holder with wires going under your coat to
    the real batteries makes that a non problem too. Since we basically have
    two seasons in upstate NY, winter and July 27th, we learn how to cope.
    Otherwise our photo season would be very short. Besides some of the best
    landscapes involve snow. I love it.

    Frank Rome, NY
     
    Frank Calidonna, Dec 16, 2004
    #11
  12. Some Dude

    The Wogster Guest

    I live in Canada, and while I am not in the coldest area, it can get
    numbing in short times, when outside.

    What you *really* want, is layers, the inner most layer should be a
    wicking layer, or material that transmits moisture from inside to
    outside, some man made materials can do this, like polypropalene, and
    some natural materials like silk. Follow this up with a good insulating
    layer which traps air, wool is the old traditional insulating layer.
    Then add a layer of wind-proof and waterproof material, goretex works
    the best, and some others work as well. In cold, wind is enemy number
    one, dampness is enemy number two.

    Gloves are the tricky part here, while it's easy to layer on your body,
    it's tricky for your hands, because you still need to have your hands
    workable. There are some possible solutions though, with an
    auto-exposure and auto-focus camera, then a longer remote release could
    be kept inside mittens, to make exposures easier. With an
    auto-exposure, manual focus camera, it's almost as easy to use the side
    of your mittened hand to focus, and trust the auto-exposure mechanism to
    work again using a remote release in your mitten to trigger the
    exposure. Fully manual cameras, you can probably grip an aperature ring
    well enough, but you need a shutter dial that either overlaps the
    outside of the body, or pick a shutter speed, and then set the aperature
    to compensate.

    I find mechanical cameras are better for cold work, as batteries can
    easily freeze, film can freeze too, but slow steady manual advancing
    will keep film from shattering. Keep fresh rolls, in a warm area, used
    ones should go in an outside pocket or in their plastic cans. Make sure
    they are in the plastic cans before taking them into a warm area.

    Changing film can be the tricky part, because you need to use your
    fingers for dexterous work, while loading. Bulk film backs, or rolls
    that are longer can help, use 36exp rolls, or bulk load your own, I
    think you can go up to about 46 in a standard 35mm cartridge....

    W
     
    The Wogster, Dec 16, 2004
    #12
  13. Some Dude

    Tom Phillips Guest

    Actually, being a wilderness guide and climber
    and frequenting mountain environments averaging
    400 inches snowfall anually with winter temps
    often -20F below (-60 is the record), plus often
    windy (100 mph is not uncommon on chinook days)
    _wet_ is the #1 enemy; staying dry is what keeps
    you alive. The difference is wind can chill you
    and facilitate frostbite if raw skin is exposed
    or clothing insufficient. But it's not the killer
    being wet is.

    If you're wet in a wet-cold environment, however,
    you're dead, plain and simple. Wind or no wind.
    Hypothermia in the temps discussed is virtually
    assured if wet. So, yes to layers (like I said
    poly glove liners) and wool mittens or some suitable
    synthetic are good choices since they will _all_
    still insulate even when wet. Mittens will trap
    air to keep fingers warm; gloves less so.

    Any synthetic outer wind shell should be suitable
    as long as it's breathable. In winter/snow I don't
    see that it has to be waterproof, just water
    resistent. Gore tex is rather overpriced...
     
    Tom Phillips, Dec 16, 2004
    #13
  14. Some Dude

    Some Dude Guest

    Man you guys came out in droves for this one! I'm impressed. Thanks.

    I ran into a guy that does ice climbing and he was mentioning using
    those iso-heet (sp?) hand warmer things that you put inside your glove.
    He says they last about two hours and are quite cheap. He says he
    used a pair of thin mountain hardwear shells and puts a hand warmer in
    each one and he's good to go even at -20f or colder.

    Thanks again
     
    Some Dude, Dec 17, 2004
    #14
  15. Some Dude

    Neal Guest

    here's what i would recommend - use the fleece liner of a two part
    glove for you minor hand, and a bulky mitt for your major hand that is
    easy to remove.
     
    Neal, Dec 17, 2004
    #15
  16. Some Dude

    Neal Guest

    On Wed, 15 Dec 2004 18:22:48 GMT, "Pieter Litchfield"

    i got you both beat :) -52C in northern british columbia, but -54f is
    pretty damn cold for USA.
     
    Neal, Dec 17, 2004
    #16
  17. Some Dude

    Neal Guest

    I find mechanical cameras are better for cold work, as batteries can
    I've had film snap mid-roll in very cold temps. I noticed soemthing
    was wrong after with the film winding but b/c i didnt know the film
    snapped, i wasnt able to rewind the part with pictures on it.
     
    Neal, Dec 17, 2004
    #17
  18. Some Dude

    John Bartley Guest

    Yup - can't beat you, but I can tie you. I've seen -52'C in Iroquois
    Falls, Northern Ontario, winter 1983/84. That same morning Matheson
    Ontario (just up the river) showed -64'C .

    Even with two block heaters my truck wouldn't roll over - engine block
    was warm, but the oil was too thick.

    cheers

    --
    regards from ::

    John Bartley
    43 Norway Spruce Street
    Stittsville, Ontario
    Canada, K2S1P5

    ( If you slow down it takes longer
    - does that apply to life also?)
     
    John Bartley, Dec 18, 2004
    #18
  19. Some Dude

    Douglas Guest

    Well this thread direction was expected. Fun!

    The record is apparently held by White River Ontario (just N of Superior) as
    the coldest place in Canada. In the winter of 1935 it dropped one night
    to -72 degrees Fahrenheit. They have a sign in town that brags about this.
    White River is also noted as the birth place of Winnie the pooh.

    ....course I wasn't old enough or stupid enough to be there when it was that
    cold....D
     
    Douglas, Dec 18, 2004
    #19
  20. I've worked all winter pruning grapes in a winery vineyard with
    gloves by a company called DucksBack. They had fine silk innards, a
    tightly knit cashmire glove, and a doeskin "trigger finger" mitten,
    lined with flannel, on the outside. They were wonderful, but wicked
    expensive...$32.00 when we were making $4.75 /hr. WORTH IT !
     
    William Mutch, Dec 23, 2004
    #20
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