Nasty, rude responses...

Discussion in 'Photoshop Tutorials' started by M S Baker, Feb 26, 2004.

  1. M S Baker

    M S Baker Guest

    I have been reading some of the questions and answers on this newsgroup and
    am dismayed by how rude and nasty some of you are.

    People come here for help and to get questions answered by experienced
    users - not to be put down for not knowing or not being able to find the
    answers elsewhere.

    I've been at the computer game and have been a telephone support and
    continuing education instructor for a long, long time. Everyone learns
    differently and by different methods.

    So please, if you feel a question is beneath you, simply don't respond. The
    world is hard enough without being put down when you seek help.
     
    M S Baker, Feb 26, 2004
    #1
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  2. M S Baker

    Flycaster Guest

    Unmoderated newsgroups (and not just this one, believe me) can be pretty
    rough. While I agree with you in principle, my advice is to thicken up your
    skin and learn how to use your reader's blocking program. If you see a
    response that you think is way out of line, you've got 2 choices: jump in,
    or killfile the poster. I suggest the latter, but sometimes that is indeed
    difficult.
     
    Flycaster, Feb 26, 2004
    #2
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  3. M S Baker

    Kingdom Guest

    Well said
     
    Kingdom, Feb 26, 2004
    #3
  4. M S Baker

    Brooklyn NYC Guest

    Amen to that! Too much of that shit in almost every ng.
     
    Brooklyn NYC, Feb 26, 2004
    #4
  5. M S Baker

    Alan D-W Guest

    In any newsgroup you'll get the self-styled experts who think they are above
    the learners. Unfortunately all they feel able to do is put down the
    newbies, apparently forgetting they were once newbies themselves, though
    there are a few so arrogant that you'd think they emerged from the womb
    deftly manipulating their Wacoms.

    Ignore them, consider them beneath you; their excrement smells as badly as
    anyone else's.
     
    Alan D-W, Feb 26, 2004
    #5
  6. M S Baker

    Brooklyn NYC Guest

    They do it to everyone actually, not just the newbies. Unfortunately it has
    become the "nature of the beast." If we want to continue to be part of these
    ng's (and I cannot seem to find one single newsgroup that is not suffering
    from this problem in one way or another) we are going to have to put up with
    some of these people.

    Usually, when I see a post or reply from someone that I know is a flamer or
    troll I don't even open it. I have learned that I can't take this shit
    personally and to take what some people say with a grain of salt. Besides,
    there are other groups or organizations with their own msg brds relating to
    interests that are available. However, I do understand that they are not
    open to everybody -- subscriptions, etc.

    What to do.
     
    Brooklyn NYC, Feb 26, 2004
    #6
  7. The problem here Alan, is not that all the*experts* are rude but when
    someone asks a question which can be answered by reading the help
    instructions and the *expert* points this out ...the OP gets the shits
    because someone told him/her to go and read the manual. This starts the
    brawl.

    The people I work with are encouraged to go to the groups while waiting on
    workflow so typing up the instructions from a manual or help file is both a
    waste of time and an abuse of the volunteering nature of giving advise. If
    someone asks how to resize an image, all they have to do is type in 'resize
    image' in PS help and they get the answer. If that doesn't tell them what
    they wanted to know, then they asked the wrong question.

    Pardon me (and anyone else who is straight to the point) if you are told to
    get your head out of your ass and look around. If you can't read printed
    instructions, what good are mine? Being a learner is something we all did at
    one time or another. I can't ever remember telling one of my mentors that I
    didn't take kindly to being told to read instructions.

    What ever gives anyone the idea they can ask for help, insult the helper and
    then get some sympathy? If that's not enough where do others get off by
    claiming volunteers are rude for giving out free information and retaliating
    when they are derided for doing it? I think you all need a lesson in social
    interaction.

    Douglas
    ---------------
     
    Douglas MacDonald, Feb 27, 2004
    #7
  8. M S Baker

    jjs Guest

    I find it difficult to believe you were really born yesterday. Look, this
    is a diverse group of people, not the selfl-selected friends and
    constituents you foster in real life. Toughen up. Take what you find
    valuable, share knowledge, ignore what's not useful. That's what built
    Usenet.

    Some people just plain need a kick in the butt, and if they learn that for
    the first time on Usenet, then so be it. If someone pays hundreds of
    dollars for a piece of software and won't take the time to look at the
    product, but instead comes here expecting instant gratification, then he
    should not be surprised to receive a not-so-gentle nudge towards the book,
    or at least the Help button.

    Enjoy the differences, or don't. Have a nice day unless you have other plans.
     
    jjs, Feb 27, 2004
    #8
  9. M S Baker

    Stuart Guest

    Sometimes it is a case of 'if you can't attempt to help yourself then
    why should we'. There are some
    questions which could be answered much faster by using the inline help
    or reading the manual. If someone
    has tried to find the information for themselves or has very good reason
    as to why not, then yes people are
    more willing to help. This ng has proven useful to people with genuine
    questions, tips and tricks and most
    of the time problems. Each situation needs to be taken on its own merits
    but sometimes people need a boot
    up the arse before the habit of asking simple questions kicks in before
    attempting to read the manual.

    As this ng is unmoderated then you do get the occasional asshole/troll
    who wants to play and make the
    situation worse, just ignore them. If you don't like someone's answer
    then just ignore it.

    Back to my first point, some people expect instant help without trying
    themselves. As this ng is made up of
    people volunteering their help and expertise then don't push your luck,
    some people expect things to come
    to them, sometimes you have to make the effort to try and get it yourself.

    Stuart
     
    Stuart, Feb 27, 2004
    #9
  10. M S Baker

    Ben Guest

    No matter what, it is always an "arrogance" to be rude to people who
    ask what they don't understand. How are we supposed to know whether
    the person asking question has done enough reading about that
    particular topic? Some people find it hard to understand even simple
    concepts. Our modes of intelligence vary. All of us are not
    super-humans! This is a free newsgroup. As long as the question is
    relevant to photoshop or photo-editing, that ain't a problem.

    As long as a relevant question is asked, no question is stupid but the
    answer can be!

    Ben
     
    Ben, Feb 27, 2004
    #10
  11. And what do the experienced users come here for???
    Sometimes the answers are unbelievably easy to find elsewhere, like "Does
    the Nikon XXX take compact flash?" Why not look at www.nikon.com and see!
    But you were presumably paid to do it. These experts aren't. The reason they
    hang around in here is to discuss things that interest them. Most of them
    are willing to answer questions which are 'beneath them' (those are after
    all the only questions you can answer!), but it does get annoying when the
    board is filled up with posts like:

    I'm looking for a digital camera, one that has a good lens, and a good
    sensor, and of course a good strap, lens cap and battery. Which one should I
    get??

    But I do agree that noone should be offensive about it, rather refer people
    to the FAQ (If anyone knows where it is!)
     
    Martin Bishop, Feb 27, 2004
    #11
  12. M S Baker

    jjs Guest

    So take on the cause, Ben. You can be the kinder, more gentle guru for
    those who have more dollars than sense. Do that and let's see how long you
    last before you hang up, or go ballistic.

    Or are you just sniping? We shall see.
     
    jjs, Feb 27, 2004
    #12
  13. M S Baker

    phucaduck Guest

    As it has been throughout history, those with small egos try to boost
    their own self-image by demeaning others.

    And with the proliferation of online communication and increasingly
    busy lifestyles, social skills are hitting an all-time low.

    Combine those two factors with a group of people who are artistic,
    geeky, and semi-reclusive, and you've got a troll/flame war waiting to
    happen.

    Throw in the few opinionated extremists that are common to any group
    (be it an online user group, a political group, a religious group, a
    social group, etc.) and it will become clear that we're lucky it is
    not any worse.

    Personally, I just ignore idiotic questions and move along. Too bad
    more don't do the same.
     
    phucaduck, Feb 27, 2004
    #13
  14. M S Baker

    jjs Guest

    THIS from a guy with an id of phucaduck? Gimmie a break.
     
    jjs, Feb 28, 2004
    #14
  15. M S Baker

    Roy Petersen Guest

    Trying to help him prove his point?
     
    Roy Petersen, Feb 28, 2004
    #15
  16. M S Baker

    Ben Guest

    Sure, lets see!!
    This posting was about people giving rude and nasty replies. If
    someone doesn't like the question, just don't reply to it. If someone
    wants to reply, just don't be rude. If people don't even know how to
    be polite in a public newsgroup, then it's time to go back to high
    school and learn something that's more important than photoshop...
    Everyone got right to ask questions here. If someone doesn't like the
    question, just don't reply. There's no point being rude and nasty.

    Ben
     
    Ben, Feb 28, 2004
    #16
  17. M S Baker

    Linelle Lane Guest

    You'are going to find rude people everywhere. And some of them enjoy it. I
    agree with either toughening up a bit, killfiling, or ignoring.

    But I really think it's a mistake to ask every question without giving an
    honest try to find it either in the manual or an online search. Sometimes
    the path to an answer yields more/better info than you thought you were
    seeking in the first place. Sometimes not finding the right answer
    immediately reveals info you didn't even think about! Learning is not just
    walking from A to B to eventually Z. It's more complex, but it's also more
    fun.
     
    Linelle Lane, Feb 28, 2004
    #17
  18. M S Baker

    Bill Newton Guest

    .....snip
    Decent post, except for the comment above; tell me, just 'how' does one
    identify an 'idiotic' question?:)

    I believe the word 'irrelevant' should have been used as opposed to the
    subjective 'idiotic'

    Why? Well I believe that many folk subscribing to this newsgroup
    consider themselves to be very knowledgable re Photoshop, yet one has to
    take into account that they too might ask a question that could be
    considered 'idiotic' by a proven Photoshop Guru.i.e. somebody with
    superior knowledge.

    So, in my opinion, if one chooses to respond to any relevant question,
    they should do so in a sensible manner. If the question simply annoys
    one because its you considered to be 'idiotic', just do as the ill named
    'phucaduck' suggests, and ignore it.

    Bill Newton.

    P.S. Why on earth has the poster I'm responding to chosen an online name
    that belies the sensible comments displayed in their posting?
     
    Bill Newton, Feb 28, 2004
    #18
  19. M S Baker

    LG Guest

    See?


     
    LG, Feb 28, 2004
    #19
  20. M S Baker

    JP White Guest

    I like to compare this NG and say the Elements NG. That group is SO much
    more friendly and upbeat with experienced users willing to explain to
    newbies how to do the most obvious and easy things without resorting to
    put downs or rude language. Some reasonably advanced topics are
    discussed also with some Photoshop users visiting there also (e.g. me).

    Not all NG's are made equal. In fact the alt dot photoshop NG is even
    worse than this one.

    I agree with Mr. Baker, there is no excuse for rudeness, even if you are
    provoked.

    That doesn't mean to say I can't be provoked, rather I shouldn't allow
    myself to be provoked. But we are only frail humans....

    JP
     
    JP White, Feb 28, 2004
    #20
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