National Geographic Photo Comp... Would you enter under these terms??

Discussion in 'Australia Photography' started by AU Digital Photo Of The Day, Aug 19, 2003.

  1. Hi,

    I would love to enter the current National Geographic photo comp, but I just
    can't make myself click the submit button when it says the image become the
    "sole property" of National Geographic and Sony.

    The following is from their "Terms & Conditions".....

    "6. The contestants agree to assign all intellectual property rights of the
    pictures submitted to Sony Marketing Asia Pacific Pte. Ltd. and National
    Geographic Channel and as such, Sony Marketing Asia Pacific Pte. Ltd. and
    National Geographic Channel will have full rights to the pictures usage for
    any above and below-the-line marketing activities and any other activities."

    Now the photo that I wish to enter "may" sit around and do nothing, but I
    still think it is too good to just give away..... although the prize of
    going on a NG expedition with one of their photographers is very tempting
    (you get a Sony digital also).... What would you do??

    Russell Stewart
    Australian Digital Photo Of The Day
    http://www.pixelpix.com.au/adpotd.html
     
    AU Digital Photo Of The Day, Aug 19, 2003
    #1
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  2. AU Digital Photo Of The Day

    Andrew Mc Guest

    I guess you need to weigh it up - would the exposure that winning a NG comp
    would bring, be worth the possible future income from the photo otherwise?
     
    Andrew Mc, Aug 19, 2003
    #2
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  3. Hi Russell,

    In some cases I'm tempted to shoot for the comp, knowing that's the
    only place I can use the image, just like shooting for some of the 'on
    request' image libraries I do some work for... The shot that I'd like
    to enter in an NG comp won't be going over to them for free - and
    that's what gets me... the hundreds of images that they get and can
    use is often worth hugely more than the prize they offer, and it
    devalues all images to them in future... but you won't stop people
    entering these comps, and a winners certificate is a good piece of
    reference material in your portfolio...

    Cheers,
    Stuart
     
    Stuart Elflett, Aug 19, 2003
    #3
  4. got a URL?

    difficult question

    If the image isn't going to sell, then it's not going to win the comp.
    If it is going to win the comp, then it'll sell well and you'll loose
    business. Catch 22, except if you do win the certificate will be a
    boost to your business.

    [shrug] I doubt most 'pros' will enter anyway.
     
    Andrew Hennell, Aug 19, 2003
    #4
  5. AU Digital Photo Of The Day

    snaps! Guest

    Just a set of Ralph Rotten rules Russell.
    If you don't like them, you don't have to enter, you know?
    Doug
     
    snaps!, Aug 19, 2003
    #5
  6. LOL :)

    I shouldn't bite... but I will....

    Their rules are their rules.... I have no problem with that.

    I am simply trying to make up my mind if I "want" to enter given their set
    of rules and some "discussion" on the matter with other photo minded people
    may help me look at it from other perspectives, thereby helping "me" make
    the "choice" to submit or not. :)
     
    AU Digital Photo Of The Day, Aug 19, 2003
    #6
  7. AU Digital Photo Of The Day

    Miro Guest

    Look at it this way. You can show it to all of us and we can give you
    nothing for it or you can show it hundreds of millions of people and get
    nothing for it. If the prize isnt enough of a temptation to share then I
    dont think selling the photos for money is going to buy any friends either.
     
    Miro, Aug 19, 2003
    #7
  8. AU Digital Photo Of The Day

    Andrew Mc Guest

    Yeah, that's what I meant. You need to weigh up what winning the contest would
    give you versus what the photo would make should it not become property of the
    contest owners.
     
    Andrew Mc, Aug 19, 2003
    #8
  9. Look at it this way. You can show it to all of us and we can give you
    I do love people seeing my images and I love it even more if they happen to
    like them.... but in my case selling images is what puts food on the
    table.... and the images that I would consider worthy of entry do just that.

    So as I just mentioned to Doug, I need to weigh up between the chance of
    spending a week with NG v's lost income of future sales (...that may well be
    more than compensated for by spin-offs)

    The temptation generated by this particular prize is great however, and the
    comments from this thread are indeed helping me look at the issue from
    differing angles and for that I am grateful. :)

    Russell
     
    AU Digital Photo Of The Day, Aug 19, 2003
    #9
  10. Sorry Andrew, I mis-read your other post... it must have been while the
    kids were nagging me to play noodlebots.com.au or whatever the silly URL was
    :)

    Russell
     
    AU Digital Photo Of The Day, Aug 19, 2003
    #10
  11. AU Digital Photo Of The Day

    Miro Guest

    I never realised that you took so few great photos that one or two would cut
    that deeply into your income.

    What are we talking about here. ...... your entire collection ? I would say
    that if you dont win you can sell the photos anyway. NG wont have paid
    anything for it. A contract of exclusive entitlement is only valid if it
    pertains to a transaction. In other words ..... you cant be made to give
    away all of your prospects on the basis of speculation alone.
     
    Miro, Aug 19, 2003
    #11
  12. AU Digital Photo Of The Day

    Miro Guest

    What do you think the odds are that they will chase you for money over a
    photo that you took and they gave you nothing for.
     
    Miro, Aug 19, 2003
    #12
  13. AU Digital Photo Of The Day

    Miro Guest

    Besides I would rather buy a photo from someone if they were featured in an
    NG collection .... wouldnt you ?
     
    Miro, Aug 19, 2003
    #13
  14. AU Digital Photo Of The Day

    Rudi Guest

    I wouldn't even *think* of entering one of my photos under such
    conditions - no matter what the potential prize or potential
    "prestige" that could be gained.

    Ever heard of *any other* artist giving away their art for the slight
    chance (and it is only that, a chance!) of winning a prize???

    Sony Corp. have way too much money as it is. I cannot believe that
    they even dare to propose such terms as part of the entry conditions!
    They know that some (most?) people will be tempted by the potential
    material gain, and will in the process screw themselves out of future
    income, while Sony will gain free advertising in the process.

    What to do? Tell them to get stuffed* and walk away... :)

    NOTE: * I would actually email them to let them know why I'm NOT
    choosing to enter - the stronger worded the better, IMO!


    Regards,

    Rudi
    http://www.rudiphoto.net/
     
    Rudi, Aug 19, 2003
    #14
  15. AU Digital Photo Of The Day

    Phred Guest

    As I read (6) above it's not as simple as that -- you also need to
    weigh up potential future income from the photo(s) submitted versus no
    prize at all from NGS! They seem to be saying they get to own *all*
    the entries, irrespective of individual outcomes in the competition.




    Cheers, Phred.
     
    Phred, Aug 19, 2003
    #15
  16. AU Digital Photo Of The Day

    snaps! Guest

    After reading their rules to my daughter (a Solicitor) she is of the opinion
    that you literally give NG and SONY your pictures to do with as they choose.
    My own opinion is that they will use some (all) of them over the next year
    to advertise Sony cameras. NG will probably put all of them in their
    collection and use them whenever they have an article in need of a photo.

    Like all the other comps I have considered recently, I simply would not
    enter this one. Take for example Stuart Elflett's rose (not that this is a
    NG subject); Stuart has entered this in many competitions and won some. If
    he were to enter it in this comp and it didn't rate a mention, he'd have
    given away all income potential from that picture for ever. My rose
    collection from 1986 has earned me over $8000 and still has earning
    poterntial now that I can restore the colours digitally. That's an awfully
    expensive compertition entry! I have a number of photos I'd absolutely love
    to enter but to give them away? nah... Bloody Ralph Rotten rules again!

    Doug
    ---------------------------------------------------
     
    snaps!, Aug 19, 2003
    #16
  17. AU Digital Photo Of The Day

    Scott Coutts Guest

    Yeah, that's what I reckon too. You're chances of winning are relatively
    low since I'm sure they'll get thousands of entries (even if they're not
    all great ones) If you were guaranteed to win, then that would be
    another matter.
     
    Scott Coutts, Aug 20, 2003
    #17
  18. AU Digital Photo Of The Day

    Scott Coutts Guest

    But by the same token, stacks of people will not see this as a problem
    and stacks of people *shouldnt* see this as a problem. If you dont make
    a living from your photography, and most people dont, then there's no
    problem anyhow...
     
    Scott Coutts, Aug 20, 2003
    #18
  19. As they say, if you've sold a picture once you can sell it again...
    the fact that someone liked/needed/used that images means that more
    will potentially do so again...

    Cheers,
    Stuart
     
    Stuart Elflett, Aug 20, 2003
    #19
  20. Well, there's no problem for the person who doesn't make a living from
    the shots... but the ones that do now have that much a smaller market
    to make a living from as NG has all these 'free' images they can
    choose from, and the Sony run image library now has a heap of images
    that can be sold for a profit, with no expense on their behalf at
    all... add that up for all the likely entries, and even if only a
    small percentage are ever used for anything, that's a lot of money
    that isn't making it to photographers who DO make a living from their
    sales... or even just some pocket money for the next lens...

    Cheers,
    Stuart
     
    Stuart Elflett, Aug 20, 2003
    #20
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