need help choosing photo printer - 9900 vs 2200

Discussion in '35mm Cameras' started by Donald Specker, Nov 17, 2004.

  1. Seems that the Epson 2200 and Canon i9900 are in the final running for me.
    Any comments on merits of each? I want the best looking output for
    potential gallery use, shows.

    Thanks!
     
    Donald Specker, Nov 17, 2004
    #1
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  2. Donald Specker

    Bill Hilton Guest

    From: "Donald Specker"
    Print quality from either of these is excellent.

    Epson 2200 prints are rated to last about 3x as long as the Canon prints, per
    Wilhelm Research. This is because it uses pigment inks instead of dye inks.
    If you're selling fine art prints this is probably the deciding factor.

    Epson 2200 prints very well on softer watercolor "fine art" papers. In
    particular the Epson Velvet - Fine Art is an incredible paper for display
    prints. Epson has better support from the makers of expensive fine art papers
    like Arches Infinity or Hahnemuehle Photo Rag, with full ICC support for their
    papers, while color managed support for the Canon printers is far less
    wide-spread.

    Canon i9900 is a couple hundred bucks cheaper and is a faster printer, though
    this is rarely a concern for fine art prints. The dye-based printers like this
    one do a better job on glossier papers than the 2200, which tends to show
    'gloss differential' in large areas of black ink, so if you're planning on
    printing mostly glossy then the i9900 is probably a better choice. We sell a
    fair number of portrait prints on the Premium Luster paper using the 2200 inks
    (actually using the 4000, same inks as the 2200 but 17" wide carriage) and
    these look fine, but for glossy prints the dye ink printers do a better job.
    The dye-ink printers *don't* do as well on the softer fine art papers though,
    for various reasons.

    For my money better fine-art watercolor paper support and the longevity issue
    are the best arguments for the 2200, while speed and better glossy prints are
    the best arguments for the i9900. Depends on what's important to you.

    Below is a link to a comparison of the i9100 (previous Canon equiv to the
    i9900), Epson 1280 and Epson 2200 from someone who sells all three ... good
    background info. Personally I'd try to get a sample print of a couple of
    images from each printer and check them carefully before plunking down the
    bucks since tastes vary ... nothing like seeing prints side-by-side to cut thru
    the fog.

    http://www.inkjetart.com/news/archive/IJN_04-18-04.html ... scroll down a
    couple of screens to "Q: What are my choices for 13" wide photo inkjet
    printers, and which is best?"

    Bill
     
    Bill Hilton, Nov 17, 2004
    #2
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  3. A guy I talked to the other day, who uses the 2200, and sells his stuff at
    fairs and the like, said the only thing that he would prefer is a printer
    that could print on canvas, or some thicker media than his 2200. He had one
    in mind, but I forget what it was now. He liked to duplicate paintings from
    his slides, using a Canon camera, a Nikon 4000 dpi scanner, Photoshop and
    the Epson 2200........
     
    William Graham, Nov 18, 2004
    #3
  4. Donald Specker

    Annika1980 Guest

    From: "Donald Specker"
    Enjoy your new Epson!
     
    Annika1980, Nov 18, 2004
    #4
  5. Donald Specker

    ThomasH Guest

    I am an owner of the S9000 for over one year and I was surprised
    to discover a *drastic* fading of the images on the Canon Glossy
    Photo Paper Plus. The fading is fatal, I must say. I urge you
    to chose the Epson. A paradox is that the *cheaper* matte papers
    seem to hold better, despite the lack of the protective layer.
    Search also Steves Digicams forums. People have already reported
    such problems.

    I will write on the weekend more about my experience with Canon
    support and my conclusion. Prior to these revelations I was
    a happy camper with the S9000. Fast, quiet, impressive results.
    The matter of fact is, that your investment in "consumables"
    with literally fade away!

    Thomas
     
    ThomasH, Nov 18, 2004
    #5
  6. Donald Specker

    DALLAS Guest

    Printing your own at home is a very expensive option. When I first bought
    a digital SLR in 2001 I had an Epson 880 Color Stylus and it printed
    beautifully. It sits in the box in my garage now because finding the right
    ink for it was a ball ache. It was also very expensive ink.

    The paper isn't cheap either. I did a costing exercise and it turned out
    that my home-made ink-jet prints were costing me about 1.5 times that of a
    digital lab such as a Frontier. I only print from the Frontier now and if
    I am unhappy with any of the prints they make, I just get them to do them
    again. Fortunately this doesn't happen too often.

    I've considered getting a newer ink jet but there is about to be a
    revolution in colour laser printers, so I think I will wait for them to
    reach the same quality levels as ink before I buy another printer.
     
    DALLAS, Nov 18, 2004
    #6
  7. Great input. Thanks!

     
    Donald Specker, Nov 18, 2004
    #7
  8. Donald Specker

    Mr Jessop Guest

    I believe the i9900 is an american i9950 without the dvd print tray. All
    the reviews of said machine have been very encouraging. As for the epson i
    know the 2100 was well received though there was an issue with metamerism
    with the pigmented inks. This is especially noticeable when viewing from
    extreme angles. This i think is the biggest point against gallery use. On
    the other hand epson are said to be better at fade resistance.
     
    Mr Jessop, Nov 18, 2004
    #8
  9. Donald Specker

    Mr Jessop Guest

    I believe this is metamerism. You can actually see raised areas of ink as
    the darkest parts look like they are laid on thicker. Not only that but
    there is a metalic sheen to it so that it almost looks like a negative.
     
    Mr Jessop, Nov 18, 2004
    #9
  10. Donald Specker

    Mr Jessop Guest

    I am seriously considering the i9100 myself. Unless you view the i9950
    prints next it the i9100 are more than satisfactory and the i9950 only looks
    marginally better. It basically comes down to better reds and greens. Some
    say too bright red. The latest pixma using the 8 ink system seems to over
    do the red in skin tones. I am basically hovering over the the i9100 and
    i9950. i have broached the subject on the appropriate newsgroup. There are
    anti HP. PRo HP. anti epson and pro canon and anti canon.

    Most people say espon yeah great but head clogs like mad and is not a user
    serviceable part.

    canon yeah but heads burn out after the warranty expires. and longevity is
    issue

    HP is yeah great pictures yeah longevity not bad and no head issues due to
    disposable head in cartridge. but..
    bloody hell are they expensive cartridges.

    Lexmark just suck! ;)

    For me i don't do 5000 pages a month and i paid extra for the 3 eyar
    warranty so head burn outs aren't an issue.
    also i don't sell my prints and any prints i do have are carefully stored.
    Displayed stuff is under glass out of direct sunlight. Also third party
    running costs are so good that longevity isn't an issue for me. Just churn
    out another one.
    CAnon also very fast. 6 and 8 ink colour management is practically spot on
    out of the box. minor adjustments required if you use third party
    consumables.

    Final stumbling block is that i9100 may be out of production, getting hard
    to locate.
     
    Mr Jessop, Nov 18, 2004
    #10
  11. Donald Specker

    Mr Jessop Guest

    I think you'll find that genuine canon inks are cheaper than epson. You
    will also find that the best canon paper is also the dearest. If using all
    third party consumables even without refilling a3 printing is comparatively
    cheap than lab prints. labs win on the high quantity small prints 10pence
    over here for 50 6x4 or 6.99 for 50 7x5. But colour profiled quality a3 is
    hideous prices. MInd you, you have to churn out alot on a regular basis to
    justify the initial purchase prices. All in all for quality gallery
    purposes i would find a pro lab that uses a fuji frontier or an agfa d lab1.
    Real photopaper but with laser precision. Heavy canvas printing on the other
    hand has to be an epson.
     
    Mr Jessop, Nov 18, 2004
    #11
  12. Donald Specker

    DALLAS Guest

    You're welcome.

    Something I forgot to mention is that if you make a screw up on your home
    printing it's for your own account, whereas if the lab makes a screw up,
    they pay for it.
     
    DALLAS, Nov 19, 2004
    #12
  13. Yes.....I understand that Epson has a newer printer than the 2200 out that
    will take heavy canvas, so you can make prints that look like paintings, but
    I don't know the model and/or the price.......
     
    William Graham, Nov 19, 2004
    #13
  14. This is 35mm equipment. What the **** is that question doing here?
     
    Uranium Committee, Nov 20, 2004
    #14
  15. Donald Specker

    ThomasH Guest

    So you chose to ignore the warning posted by me here?

    i9100 uses exact the same paper and inks fo the S9000:
    BCI-6, 13ml tanks. See:

    http://www.pbase.com/phototalk_thh/2004_10_12_s9000_fading

    Canon has refused to even look at the images with the
    argument that the many different factors make it irrelevant
    why it happened in my particular case. Image hit counter
    was 0 up to now, as I made *today* the gallery public.
    I wanted get the issue settled without any public bashing.

    Steve Sanders of Steves Digicams gave Canon printers a
    raving review. Many people bought the printers partly
    because of such reviews. On his own photo forum a few
    users have reported problems comparable to mine. See:

    http://www.stevesforums.com/forums/view_topic.php?id=14438&forum_id=40

    message by RobK send on "Sat May 17th, 2003" and replied
    to by Steve Sanders himself.

    I was (fore?)last weekend at http://www.kspphoto.com/ and
    I stumbled into a Canon rep presentation of their cameras
    and lenses at the digital store:

    http://www.kspphoto.com/activepages/digitalstore.html

    Prior to talking to them, I spoke to the Keeble and
    Shuhat personnel. I was browsing large demo prints made
    with diverse Epson and Canon printers and looked at the
    printers. I plan to get the Epson 4000, except that my
    wife protests... I wanted her to see the big monster :)

    I asked about Canon printers, and if K&S have received
    reports of problems. He said, yes, and that he knows about
    Canon people are not replying or not looking at the images.
    That's because they (Canon) knows for a long time about
    the issue and its drastic proportions!!! The devices come
    from Japan and they have to face angry customers here in
    the US and cannot do much about it except to reassure
    you they did not meant to deceive anybody.


    You will hear from Canon arguments like: Only the Photo
    Paper *Pro* (not *plus*) is a four layer paper and could
    hold for up to 28 years, if put behind glass, and if,
    if, if...

    I will post a summary soon of details under which
    Canon believes to warranty their anyway inferior
    durability.

    One of the Canon reps told me that Canon will bring
    next year "something" to improve the fading problem.

    Currently, since I have a legal insurance, I have an
    appointment with consumer rights lawyer in Dec.
    I demanded from Canon to take back the S9000, but
    they do not answer. I will also that they *PRINT* on
    the box of their printers "CAN FADE AWAY DURING 12
    MONTHS on following Canon papers with our Canon
    BCI-6 'durable ink.'"

    Their photo paper and the inks are sinn expensive, I
    wonder how many people would than buy their printer
    with such label in place and knowing about such
    performance!!

    Thomas
     
    ThomasH, Nov 20, 2004
    #15
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