New DSLR lenses from Nikon

Discussion in 'Nikon' started by Bruce, Feb 9, 2010.

  1. Bruce

    Peter Guest

    "Bill Graham" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    >
    > "Peter" <> wrote in message
    > news:4b7846fc$0$22119$-secrets.com...
    >> "Bill Graham" <> wrote in message
    >> news:...
    >>>
    >>> "Peter" <> wrote in message
    >>> news:4b774ccb$3$18835$-secrets.com...

    >>
    >>>> If the government spending was at the level he claims to want, he will
    >>>> be very busy: Digging holes to safeguard his money; target practice;
    >>>> worrying whether his doctor really had a medical license; whether his
    >>>> grandchildren's teachers were competent to teach; growing his own food
    >>>> because of worry about adulterating substances; etc.
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>> --
    >>>> Peter
    >>> Funny......I am worried about all of these things right now, in spite of
    >>> the fact that we are paying over 50% of our incomes in taxes. That's
    >>> because the government just steals our money and gives us nothing for
    >>> it. Have you checked out the basket weavers they are graduating from
    >>> college nowadays? And when was the last time there was a scare about
    >>> foreign canned goods, or unsafe toys? How many illegal aliens are we
    >>> supporting nowadays? 20 million? 25 million? good God, man, there are
    >>> only about 100 million heads of households in this country. What,
    >>> exactly is your government doing with your tax dollars? And they are
    >>> borrowing trillions from China to cover their expenditures.....Doesn't
    >>> this bother you at all? Why don't you wake up?

    >>
    >> You don't want to pay for proper inspection, yet you claim to worry about
    >> them.
    >> If you are really worried about those things, you would not be against
    >> government. You would be working towards proper channeling of government
    >> spending.
    >>
    >> --
    >> Peter

    > Boy, you sure don't listen very well. I am paying right now.....Paying way
    > too much.....And, I am not getting what I am paying for!! How many times
    > do I have to repeat myself.....50% of my total work output for 40 odd
    > years is way too much to pay for my government, unless they do literally
    > everything for me, and I don't want them to do hardly anything for me.
    > They keep raising our taxes, and justify it by doing more and more for us.
    > This is the direction of complete slavery....Of making ants in an ant
    > colony out of all of us.You want this, and I do not, and you are getting
    > just what you want. I see a future where the government does everything
    > for us. This will mean that they will choose your education, your work,
    > your house, your clothes, your food and your transportation. You will not
    > have to worry about anything. Of course, you will also have no choice in
    > the matter, either. You will be an ant, and not a human being. I,
    > fortunately, will be dead, so it's no skin off my nose. - Have a nice
    > life.....:^)



    You have a conclusion that is unsupported by any fact. If you were to
    analyze spending using my approach you would be uncomfortable with your
    position. I truly understand why you are evading an answer.

    --
    Peter
     
    Peter, Feb 14, 2010
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  2. Bruce

    Ray Fischer Guest

    Bill Graham <> wrote:
    >
    >"Peter" <> wrote in message
    >news:4b7843d2$0$20538$-secrets.com...
    >> "Bill Graham" <> wrote in message
    >> news:...
    >>>
    >>> "Peter" <> wrote in message
    >>> news:4b774ccb$0$18835$-secrets.com...
    >>>> "Bill Graham" <> wrote in message
    >>>> news:...
    >>>>>
    >>>>> "Peter" <> wrote in message
    >>>>> news:4b771f5e$0$22474$-secrets.com...
    >>>>>> "Bill Graham" <> wrote in message
    >>>>>> news:...
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> "Peter" <> wrote in message
    >>>>>>> news:4b77170d$0$21958$-secrets.com...
    >>>>>>>> "Bill Graham" <> wrote in message
    >>>>>>>> news:...
    >>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>> "Peter" <> wrote in message
    >>>>>>>>> news:4b76b7b2$0$18772$-secrets.com...
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>>> We agree on something. Remember Bill votes his for pocketbook, not
    >>>>>>>>>> humanity.
    >>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>> Yes.....I am very uncomfortable when politicians have their hands
    >>>>>>>>> in my pockets........Just because Robin Hood gave money to the
    >>>>>>>>> poor, that doesn't prevent me from calling him a thief.
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>> Are you saying you receive no benefit from being a member of our
    >>>>>>>> society?
    >>>>>>>> Please clarify.
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>> --
    >>>>>>>> Peter
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> Will do. At 10% government, society is great, At 20% government it's
    >>>>>>> still not too bad, but a bit less than "great" and at 50% government
    >>>>>>> it is oppressive, way to socialistic, and a long, long way from being
    >>>>>>> great. - We passed the 50% mark some time ago, and with Obama/Pelosi,
    >>>>>>> we are fast heading to 60% and above.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> So you want the benefits without paying for them. I get it, you should
    >>>>>> only pay for the direct benefits you think you need. Not to help
    >>>>>> society as a whole.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> Just start with a few common costs. Since you know how much to spend,
    >>>>>> why don't you fill in the blanks.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> Military: = ?
    >>>>>> Education = ?
    >>>>>> Domestic security protection = ?
    >>>>>> Road maintenance = ?
    >>>>>> Court system = ?
    >>>>>> Helping our genuinely indigent to survive = ?
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> Come on Billy boy, you have investments. What is the cost of the
    >>>>>> government helping to maintain the integrity of your money.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> If you expect the benefits of living in our society without paying for
    >>>>>> them, you are a worse thief than Robin Hood.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> --
    >>>>>> Peter
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Well, the problem (as I see it) seems to be in the definition of,
    >>>>> "Benefits" If you live in a padded cell, and the government does
    >>>>> (literally) everything for you, then Peter would say life is perfect,
    >>>>> and we owe everything to our government. Bill would say we are all
    >>>>> slaves to our government and they are of no more use to us that any
    >>>>> slave driver is to his property.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> In the above example, I think the government's use should fall
    >>>>> somewhere less than 20% of our gross effort, and you seem to think that
    >>>>> it should fall somewhere over 50% of our gross effort.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> So, the lines are drawn, and all we have to do is argue over where they
    >>>>> should be.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> My argument for my position on the matter is that the more I do for
    >>>>> myself, the more freedom I enjoy. You position is the more the
    >>>>> government does for us, the easier life will be for the most people. I
    >>>>> don't count living in a padded cell as, "life". I want a little more
    >>>>> than just breathing. But, to each his own.......
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>> You completely avoided the question. What is the basis for your 20%
    >>>>
    >>>> How are you going to ensure that you have the right to do more than just
    >>>> breath.
    >>>>
    >>>> Try filling in the blanks and tell me what can be eliminated.
    >>>>
    >>>> --
    >>>> Peter
    >>> In my estimation almost all of your crap can be eliminated. I can, and do
    >>> pay for everything but the military that I use. and even that could be
    >>> privately funded. It costs about 25 cents to make a gallon of
    >>> gasoline....All the rest is taxes. the $3.00 a gallon I pay is more than
    >>> enough to keep up the roads. I don't understand why you can't see what is
    >>> obvious to me....The government is stealing us blind. Why do you think
    >>> that they can't do what they need to do with 20% of our total work
    >>> output? Less than 1% of the people on the public dole are too sick or
    >>> infirm to work. they are 99% hangers on. We live in a welfare state, and
    >>> it's getting worse every day. Have you read where our money goes? All the
    >>> useless government funded programs? I can remember Jim Eason reading the
    >>> list to me over the radio a number of years ago.Where were you? $50,000
    >>> to study some frog in the Amazon jungle. (for example) The list was as
    >>> long as my arm in fine print. It totaled into the Billions. I never voted
    >>> for any of it....Did you? - Of course not, but it's all OK with you,
    >>> isn't it? Whatever Nancy Pelosi wants is OK with you. That's because you
    >>> think that anything our government does has to be "A" OK. I, at least,
    >>> know when I am being stolen from.
    >>> The problem between us is a matter of basic beliefs. I am inherently
    >>> distrustful of other people handling my money, and you are not. I want to
    >>> do it myself, and you want the government to do it for you. I buy my own
    >>> food and other goodies, and you are comfortable handing that
    >>> responsibility over to others. If I wake up broke, it will be my own
    >>> fault, but you won't have the slightest who did it.
    >>>
    >>> Well, we are both going to wake up broke, buddy. Mark my words.......

    >>
    >>
    >> Answer my question. I'll get you started. If the State gasoline tax in WA
    >> is 54.4 cents per gallon, how does the transportation infrastructure get
    >> paid for?
    >>
    >> You say that your medical expenses are covered, how does the hospital to
    >> which you will go stay in business until you need it. What assurance is
    >> there that your doctor is properly qualified?
    >>
    >> There must be a magic wand that ensures all these things just happen.

    >
    >Have you been in a hospital recently? - Well, I have. The waiting room was
    >jammed with people. Why? not because they were sick, but because the
    >government was paying their way, so it was free. I was paying my own way,


    Graham is lying.

    According to prior statement he gets Medicare and pays for a supplemental
    policy.

    --
    Ray Fischer
     
    Ray Fischer, Feb 15, 2010
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  3. Bruce

    Peter Guest

    "Bill Graham" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    >
    > "Peter" <> wrote in message
    > news:4b788a2f$1$21510$-secrets.com...


    >>
    >> You have a conclusion that is unsupported by any fact. If you were to
    >> analyze spending using my approach you would be uncomfortable with your
    >> position. I truly understand why you are evading an answer.
    >>
    >> --
    >> Peter

    > I have a very simple "approach". There's this big black hole.....And I am
    > forced to pour money into it. I keep waiting for something good to come
    > back, but it doesn't happen. And now, at the age of 74 I have come to the
    > (obvious) conclusion that it isn't going to happen. So I tell the people
    > in line behind me to do whatever they can to avoid having to put more
    > money down the hole, and they (you) don't want to listen to me.


    Nobody is forcing you to pay the taxes you are crying about. If there was
    any real money involved and you had any balls, you would learn how to
    legally minimize your income taxes and maximize your investment yield after
    taxes. Keep crying, nobody is paying any attention.

    --
    Peter
     
    Peter, Feb 16, 2010
  4. Bruce

    Peter Guest

    "Bill Graham" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    >
    > "Peter" <> wrote in message
    > news:4b79e91a$0$13470$-secrets.com...
    >>

    > Nobody is forcing you to pay the taxes you are crying about....
    >
    > Oh really? I don't know what planet you are on, but it sure isn't the one
    > I spent 40 odd years working and paying my taxes on.....
    >
    >



    The planet that believes in taking advantage of any legal way of reducing my
    taxes, including but not limited to tax exempt munis and shelter trusts. If
    you are truly in the tax bracket you claim to be, you can certainly afford
    to pay for good tax and family planning advice. Your failure to do so is
    stealing from your heirs.
    ..
    All I will say is that there are reliable yields over 8% tax sheltered. Some
    risk, yup! I am not going to tell you what. Do your own research. I am
    convinced that you are more bluster.


    --
    Peter
     
    Peter, Feb 16, 2010
  5. Bruce

    Walter Banks Guest

    Bill Graham wrote:

    > "Walter Banks" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    > >
    > >
    > > Bill Graham wrote:
    > >
    > >> Will do. At 10% government, society is great, At 20% government it's
    > >> still
    > >> not too bad, but a bit less than "great" and at 50% government it is
    > >> oppressive, way to socialistic, and a long, long way from being great. -
    > >> We
    > >> passed the 50% mark some time ago, and with Obama/Pelosi, we are fast
    > >> heading to 60% and above.

    > >
    > > The current US government spends about 20% of GDP. By your account
    > > not too bad, but a bit less than "great" .
    > >

    > I lump all government(s) together when I ask for 10% I don't care whether
    > they call it "state" or "federal" or "local".....Leaders are leaders.....all
    > the "governors" on my island are assistants except the first one, and they
    > all give up their day jobs to the rest of the population. We have to support
    > them, IOW, whether they work for the local, state, or federal government. If
    > you are happy with paying over 50% of your output on supporting your leaders
    > and their excesses, than I am happy for you, but I am not so happy. They
    > have little to do but sit around making laws that restrict the freedoms of
    > the rest of us, and they even have the balls to exempt themselves from
    > obeying many of these same laws..... The only real difference between you
    > and I is that I can see where this is leading us, and you, (apparently) can
    > not.


    Assuming you get nothing back from what the government spends then
    Taxfreedom day in 2009 was April 13 or 28.20% up about %0.5 in
    the last 50 years quite a ways from 50% you are quoting

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_Freedom_Day

    w..
     
    Walter Banks, Feb 16, 2010
  6. Bruce

    Walter Banks Guest

    Bill Graham wrote:

    > "Walter Banks" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >
    > > Taxfreedom day in 2009 was April 13 or 28.20% up about %0.5 in
    > > the last 50 years quite a ways from 50% you are quoting
    > >
    > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_Freedom_Day
    > >
    > > w..

    > That's fine for the Federal Income tax.....The 50% I am quoting includes,
    > state income tax, home property taxes, Automobile and boat property taxes
    > (which is what they are in California) and the California sales taxes which
    > were about 8% at the time I was living there and figuring it all out. this
    > was around 50% of my gross income back in the 90's.....And, with all that,
    > California was over 20 Billion dollars in debt. It was easy to figure out
    > why. They were giving away our money to the "poor" at nothing short of
    > fantastic rates. I knew a woman who was worth about 1-1/2 million who
    > "qualified" for many of the state give-away programs. She got special low
    > interest rate state loans to remodel her two houses with, among other give
    > away programs......If the state gave away money to those who really needed
    > it, like people who are born blind or defective in some way, I wouldn't
    > bitch about it, but in fact, the state was giving my money away to people
    > like her who should have been paying their own way, because they were more
    > than capable of earning a fat income.


    Actually the numbers quoted above are for all taxes not just federal
    taxes. The US has one of the lowest tax rates in the industrialized
    world.

    The apparently low level of US taxation is like many things
    the US outsources tax collection on many things to private industry.
    Although technically not taxes most normal people must pay them.
    Most of the world garbage collection is paid for by local government
    out of tax revenue but in many places in the US is handled by private
    companies.

    Health care is another example, where all costs for private insurance
    are typically 60% higher than government run single payer systems
    in other countries with similar or better outcomes.

    w..
     
    Walter Banks, Feb 17, 2010
  7. "Peter" <> wrote in message
    news:4b76b8ae$0$27767$-secrets.com...
    > "Savageduck" <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote in message
    > news:2010021220360571490-savageduck1@REMOVESPAMmecom...
    >> On 2010-02-12 19:49:06 -0800, (Ray Fischer) said:
    >>
    >>> Bill Graham <> wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>> "Pete Stavrakoglou" <> wrote in message
    >>>> news:hl3i1v$egi$-september.org...
    >>>>> "tony cooper" <> wrote in message
    >>>>> news:...
    >>>>>> On Thu, 11 Feb 2010 15:32:37 -0500, "Pete Stavrakoglou"
    >>>>>> <> wrote:
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>> "tony cooper" <> wrote in message
    >>>>>>> news:...
    >>>>>>>> On Thu, 11 Feb 2010 10:28:54 -0500, "Pete Stavrakoglou"
    >>>>>>>> <> wrote:
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>> Sounds like you are confusing her with Obama. He never had to
    >>>>>>>>> make a
    >>>>>>>>> hard
    >>>>>>>>> decision in any facet of his career before becoming president. At
    >>>>>>>>> least
    >>>>>>>>> Palin has experience running something.
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>> Running away from running something is a better description. With
    >>>>>>>> Palin as President, she'd lose interest in the job if things
    >>>>>>>> didn't
    >>>>>>>> go her way and find some other bright and shiny object to play
    >>>>>>>> with.
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>> To me, she's like the Bearded Lady in the carnival
    >>>>>>>> sideshow...people
    >>>>>>>> will pay to see her, but nobody wants to take her home.
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>> --
    >>>>>>>> Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> She may not be the best choice and is certainly not my first or even
    >>>>>>> second
    >>>>>>> but if it is between her and Obama, there is no contest. I'll take
    >>>>>>> her
    >>>>>>> in
    >>>>>>> an instant over Obama.
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>> It seems to me that one of the biggest hurdles any modern-day
    >>>>>> President has is to effectively work with Congress by retaining the
    >>>>>> support of his/her own party members and securing at least some
    >>>>>> support of the opposing party's members.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> Obama has not been particularly effective in this, but Palin would
    >>>>>> not
    >>>>>> be at all effective in this. IMO.
    >>>>>> --
    >>>>>> Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
    >>>>>
    >>>>> It's the policy differences that matter more to me. The differences
    >>>>> between Palin and Obama are like night and day.
    >>>>>
    >>>> That's exactly right. Obama makes a very creditable president, and
    >>>> Palin
    >>>> would not. But Obama is a liberal Democrat, which is my worst
    >>>> nightmare, and
    >>>> Palin is a conservative Republican which is the closest thing to a
    >>>> perfect
    >>>> leader I can imagine, so I would vote for her in a New York minute.
    >>>
    >>> A "conservative" republican who was governer of a state that relies
    >>> quite heavily on federal money.
    >>>
    >>> Anyone who would vote for Palin is an idiot.

    >>
    >> Well, we have identified at least 2, maybe 3 in this thread.
    >>

    >
    >
    > I would settle for 2,000 nationwide. Sadly, there are many who take
    > oratory over substance
    >
    > --
    > Peter


    You are describing the president. He has a flair for speaking as long as it
    is orchestrated but there was zero substance to him, absolutely zero. But
    he was elected anyway. As the polls indicate, the wool has been removed
    from some of the voters eyes and Jimmy Carter II has been exposed.
     
    Pete Stavrakoglou, Feb 17, 2010
  8. Bruce

    Peter Guest

    "Pete Stavrakoglou" <> wrote in message
    news:hlhlho$9om$-september.org...

    >
    > You are describing the president. He has a flair for speaking as long as
    > it is orchestrated but there was zero substance to him, absolutely zero.
    > But he was elected anyway. As the polls indicate, the wool has been
    > removed from some of the voters eyes and Jimmy Carter II has been exposed.
    >



    You very well know who I was describing and that it was not the President.
    Pre-election over, you were saying the same thing. You won't even give his
    ideas a reasonable chance. Your chief complaint about him is that he is not
    a conservative who doesn't give a hoot for people. I strongly suspect that
    you and I have the same social goals. We just differ on how to achieve them.
    I am convinced that we need some intelligent government intervention to keep
    good people honest and to dilute the greed that pervades some people, just
    as we need laws against clearly criminal behavior.


    --
    Peter
     
    Peter, Feb 20, 2010
  9. "Peter" <> wrote in message
    news:4b75fd7f$0$12419$-secrets.com...
    > "Pete Stavrakoglou" <> wrote in message
    > news:hl3i1v$egi$-september.org...
    >> "tony cooper" <> wrote in message
    >> news:...
    >>> On Thu, 11 Feb 2010 15:32:37 -0500, "Pete Stavrakoglou"
    >>> <> wrote:
    >>>
    >>>>"tony cooper" <> wrote in message
    >>>>news:...
    >>>>> On Thu, 11 Feb 2010 10:28:54 -0500, "Pete Stavrakoglou"
    >>>>> <> wrote:
    >>>>>
    >>>>>>Sounds like you are confusing her with Obama. He never had to make a
    >>>>>>hard
    >>>>>>decision in any facet of his career before becoming president. At
    >>>>>>least
    >>>>>>Palin has experience running something.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Running away from running something is a better description. With
    >>>>> Palin as President, she'd lose interest in the job if things didn't
    >>>>> go her way and find some other bright and shiny object to play with.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> To me, she's like the Bearded Lady in the carnival sideshow...people
    >>>>> will pay to see her, but nobody wants to take her home.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> --
    >>>>> Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
    >>>>
    >>>>She may not be the best choice and is certainly not my first or even
    >>>>second
    >>>>but if it is between her and Obama, there is no contest. I'll take her
    >>>>in
    >>>>an instant over Obama.
    >>>>
    >>> It seems to me that one of the biggest hurdles any modern-day
    >>> President has is to effectively work with Congress by retaining the
    >>> support of his/her own party members and securing at least some
    >>> support of the opposing party's members.
    >>>
    >>> Obama has not been particularly effective in this, but Palin would not
    >>> be at all effective in this. IMO.
    >>> --
    >>> Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida

    >>
    >> It's the policy differences that matter more to me. The differences
    >> between Palin and Obama are like night and day.
    >>

    >
    > Palin has no well thought out policy. If I am wrong, please tell me what
    > it is.
    > BTW I was in Alaska last Summer, passed through Wasilla and could not see
    > Russia.
    >
    > --
    > Peter


    Maybe you can from one of the other 57 states Obama visited.
     
    Pete Stavrakoglou, Feb 22, 2010
  10. "Peter" <> wrote in message
    news:4b7f3866$0$27744$-secrets.com...
    > "Pete Stavrakoglou" <> wrote in message
    > news:hlhlho$9om$-september.org...
    >
    >>
    >> You are describing the president. He has a flair for speaking as long as
    >> it is orchestrated but there was zero substance to him, absolutely zero.
    >> But he was elected anyway. As the polls indicate, the wool has been
    >> removed from some of the voters eyes and Jimmy Carter II has been
    >> exposed.
    >>

    >
    >
    > You very well know who I was describing and that it was not the President.
    > Pre-election over, you were saying the same thing. You won't even give his
    > ideas a reasonable chance. Your chief complaint about him is that he is
    > not a conservative who doesn't give a hoot for people. I strongly suspect
    > that you and I have the same social goals. We just differ on how to
    > achieve them. I am convinced that we need some intelligent government
    > intervention to keep good people honest and to dilute the greed that
    > pervades some people, just as we need laws against clearly criminal
    > behavior.
    >
    >
    > --
    > Peter


    My chief complaint? Where do I start? It's his policies. As much debt as
    the previous administration incurred, it's nothing compared to this one.
    Government control of health care, despite what proponents claim the
    majority of Americans want nothing to do with it but damn it, he's going to
    give it to us anyway. Please, I never stated that my complaint about him
    was what you said. My complaints about him are substantive and have
    everything to do with his policies and the direction he is taking our
    country in.

    Our federal government has gone far beyond the scope the fgounding fathers
    envisioned. They are engaging in unconstitutional acts. Government
    ownership of GM and Chrysler. Health care. It's unconstitutional.
     
    Pete Stavrakoglou, Feb 22, 2010
  11. Bruce

    tony cooper Guest

    On Mon, 22 Feb 2010 20:39:37 -0800, "Bill Graham" <>
    wrote:

    >
    >"Pete Stavrakoglou" <> wrote in message
    >news:hlu01m$4ll$-september.org...
    >> "Peter" <> wrote in message
    >> news:4b7f3866$0$27744$-secrets.com...
    >>> "Pete Stavrakoglou" <> wrote in message
    >>> news:hlhlho$9om$-september.org...
    >>>
    >>>>
    >>>> You are describing the president. He has a flair for speaking as long
    >>>> as it is orchestrated but there was zero substance to him, absolutely
    >>>> zero. But he was elected anyway. As the polls indicate, the wool has
    >>>> been removed from some of the voters eyes and Jimmy Carter II has been
    >>>> exposed.
    >>>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> You very well know who I was describing and that it was not the
    >>> President. Pre-election over, you were saying the same thing. You won't
    >>> even give his ideas a reasonable chance. Your chief complaint about him
    >>> is that he is not a conservative who doesn't give a hoot for people. I
    >>> strongly suspect that you and I have the same social goals. We just
    >>> differ on how to achieve them. I am convinced that we need some
    >>> intelligent government intervention to keep good people honest and to
    >>> dilute the greed that pervades some people, just as we need laws against
    >>> clearly criminal behavior.
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> --
    >>> Peter

    >>
    >> My chief complaint? Where do I start? It's his policies. As much debt
    >> as the previous administration incurred, it's nothing compared to this
    >> one. Government control of health care, despite what proponents claim the
    >> majority of Americans want nothing to do with it but damn it, he's going
    >> to give it to us anyway. Please, I never stated that my complaint about
    >> him was what you said. My complaints about him are substantive and have
    >> everything to do with his policies and the direction he is taking our
    >> country in.
    >>
    >> Our federal government has gone far beyond the scope the fgounding fathers
    >> envisioned. They are engaging in unconstitutional acts. Government
    >> ownership of GM and Chrysler. Health care. It's unconstitutional.
    >>

    >This government doesn't understand what the US Constitution is all about.
    >they think we live in, "A Democracy where the majority rules." They don't
    >understand that a pure democracy doesn't work. We live in a constitutional
    >republic where the rule of the majority is subject to the constraints of the
    >document called the Constitution. This is what protects the minority from
    >the tyranny of the majority. It is what protects you from the people making
    >a law that takes all your money away from you (for example) and distributing
    >it amongst themselves. And there are many other things that the constitution
    >protects you from, too. People don't seem to understand that anymore. I
    >doubt if the constitution is taught even in law school anymore. I learned
    >about it way back in grammar school in the 40's. Today I hear people say
    >that it is an "Obsolete document" that is no longer relevant. They think
    >that all it does is outline our three branches of government and dictate how
    >we should elect our leaders. This is not what the constitution is all about.
    >It is the document that gave that guy in California back in the 60's his
    >right to start a cable TV business when the people of the state on
    >California made a law that prevented him from going into that business.
    >Unfortunately, they learned nothing. Which is why you can't operate a,
    >"Smoking bar" in Palo Alto, California right now. The Constitution should
    >protect that right too, but because nobody understands it, it isn't doing
    >its job anymore. You can't bring every stupid case to the Supreme Court. The
    >average Joe just doesn't have that kind of money. You have to depend on the
    >average lawyer/judge to understand the document, and if they don't, then it
    >will not be able to do its job, and that is the situation we are fast
    >approaching. Hell, we are probably already there......



    After reading Bill's posts, one has to wonder how he remained employed
    all those years. How could an employer deal with an employee with so
    little ability to think and tears off on these wild rants all the
    time?




    --
    Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
     
    tony cooper, Feb 23, 2010
  12. Bruce

    Ray Fischer Guest

    Pete Stavrakoglou <> wrote:
    >My chief complaint? Where do I start? It's his policies. As much debt as
    >the previous administration incurred, it's nothing compared to this one.


    That's lie #1: Bush created far more debt and most of the current
    defcit is BECAUSE of Bush.

    >Government control of health care, despite what proponents claim the
    >majority of Americans want nothing to do with it


    That's lie #2: In several surveys people have stated that a public
    option is just what people want. It's only because of a
    disinformation campaign funded by insurance companies that some stupid
    people have been suckered.

    > Please, I never stated that my complaint about him
    >was what you said. My complaints about him are substantive


    Your complaints are based upon political bigotry and lies.

    >Our federal government has gone far beyond the scope the fgounding fathers
    >envisioned.


    Says who?

    > They are engaging in unconstitutional acts.


    Says who? Some dishonest extremist?

    --
    Ray Fischer
     
    Ray Fischer, Feb 23, 2010
  13. In rec.photo.digital tony cooper <> wrote:

    > After reading Bill's posts, one has to wonder how he remained employed
    > all those years. How could an employer deal with an employee with so
    > little ability to think and tears off on these wild rants all the
    > time?


    You think he's employed for his thinking skills? :)

    --
    Chris Malcolm
     
    Chris Malcolm, Feb 23, 2010
  14. Bruce

    luizkutianski

    Joined:
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    It is a great news, but the price is little high
     
    luizkutianski, Sep 29, 2010
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