New Nikon FM4a... Why not? :-) :-) :-)

Discussion in 'Nikon' started by Lewis Lang, Oct 25, 2003.

  1. Lewis Lang

    Lewis Lang Guest

    I love Nikon MF gear so take this in that perspective...

    Regardless of sales figures (my hope/wish ;-) :) - yeah, yeah, I've heard that
    the FM3a hasn't been a big seller), it would seem only logical for Nikon to
    build on its manual focus line and come out with an FM4a.

    How about an updated Nikon FA with mechanical speed backups at all demarcated
    shutter speeds, the ability to power off an MD-15 (or MD-15-like) motor drive
    or even power off a 2 f.p.s. winder, flash compensation button, an AE-lock
    button that can toggle on and off w/o being held down to keep a continuously
    locked exposure reading, same newer bight viewfinder screen as the FM3a, dx
    coding, 1/250 sec. or higher flash sync (perhaps Nikon can even find a way to
    do 1/300 or 1/500), built-in flash (not operable, of course, sans batteries)
    that also acts like a wireless controller in normal/ratio and high speed flash
    sync? (hello, Minolta! ;-)), really compact size a la Nikon EM/Pentax Super
    Program size, high or higher eye-point would be great too. A nice way to use
    all those pre-existing lenses in your arsenal, used and new MF or AF/P lenses
    w/o losing much but autofocus and the advantage of having a new body (not that
    Nikon gear doesn't last a long time ;-).

    An updated Nikon EM and N2000 would be nice too :).

    Anyway, one of my early Christmas gift wishes, along with world peace and no
    more Miss Whatever beauty pageants - neither which is too likely to happen, but
    hopefully this camera's release is a bit likelier to happen ;-)

    Regards,

    Lewis
     
    Lewis Lang, Oct 25, 2003
    #1
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  2. Lewis Lang

    Clanger Guest

    digital is where their money and profits lie

    35mm is dying......or dead

    clanger
     
    Clanger, Oct 25, 2003
    #2
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  3. Lewis Lang

    Leicaddict Guest

    HUH? Haven't you just described a Nikon FM3A? The only thing a Nikon FA has,
    is matrix metering. But many would rather have the center weighted metering
    of the FM3A, so why complicate things. I think the idea behind the FM3A was
    to make an updated camera that indeed already does incorperate many of the
    items that you've wished for, but disregards those items that might affect
    reliability. In the case of the FM3A, the less circuit boards and
    electronics, the better.
     
    Leicaddict, Oct 25, 2003
    #3
  4. Lewis Lang

    jriegle Guest

    The FM3a retains the classic 35mm SLR style and is likely as close as your
    going to get. Your talking automation and built in flash. Why not just go AF
    body then? It is unfortunate that Nikon had to put a big rift in their
    system isn't it? (old compatibility vs. new technology).

    Camera makers are putting nearly all of their R&D budgets toward digital.
    Nikon has to put fourth much effort to keep up with Canon's low cost Digital
    SLRs.
    John
     
    jriegle, Oct 25, 2003
    #4
  5. I'd prefer an FM3T, with F3T-style interchangeable finder and MLU... yet
    retaining the advances in shutter tech that the FMx line has.

    Oh, and a Y/C mount. Maybe not so likely, that one.
     
    Martin Francis, Oct 25, 2003
    #5
  6. Lewis Lang

    Lewis Lang Guest

    Subject: Re: New Nikon FM4a... Why not? :) :) :)
    SNIP

    Because there are some people who want or prefer a manual focus body w/
    mechanical backup either as an addition/backup to their AF systems or, instead
    of their AF systems, and a fully AE featured non-AF mechanical back up body is
    both unique and w/i Nikon's powers to make. The closest that came up to this
    spec in the past was Canon's New F-1(n?) and you needed a motor-drive (and
    finder?) in order to get shutter priority and it lacked programmed exposure
    plus a high flash sync speed.

    Lewis
     
    Lewis Lang, Oct 25, 2003
    #6
  7. Lewis Lang

    Lewis Lang Guest

    Subject: Re: New Nikon FM4a... Why not? :) :) :)
    Sounds great to me - I'd even settle for an F3HPn (that I've wanted for years)
    that is an F3HP w/ 1/250 sec. flash sync. Its not like Nikon has to start from
    scratch on either an FM4a or an F3HPn or your FM3T, they just need to _do_ it
    :)

    Lewis
     
    Lewis Lang, Oct 25, 2003
    #7
  8. Lewis Lang

    Lewis Lang Guest

    Subject: Re: New Nikon FM4a... Why not? :) :) :)
    35mm dying or dead? Not so. Where's your proof?

    Lewis
     
    Lewis Lang, Oct 25, 2003
    #8
  9. Lewis Lang

    Gordon Moat Guest

    Perhaps, though maybe just a return to the FM2 idea, and manual only exposure.
    That might make it just an FM4.

    I think one problem with slower sales is the abundance of good used bodies on the
    market. The FM3A did not advance on the functionality of the FE2 by much, though
    the AE lock button is much more convenient, and the flash compensation button is a
    nice addition. However, for a couple features that may get rarely used, the price
    difference between used and new is quite high.
    I was almost with yo on this, until the built-in flash feature. I just do not like
    built-in flash, since it is right over the lens, usually low powered, and an easy
    to damage item.
    I think that some method of making front curtain sync, or rear curtain flash sync,
    would be more usable. Set it so that it also works with the manual shutter speeds,
    or with a dead battery in the camera, and I would probably get one.

    Much more compact, and they might look like toys, or digital P&S cameras. Of
    course, I have large hands, so smaller cameras could be considered less ergonomic
    for me.
    All the autofocus lenses I have tried have poor manual focus feel in comparison to
    true manual focus lenses. While there may be a few better optical formulas in new
    lenses, there is an abundant supply of used lenses.
    Actually, they just quit making the F3 not so long ago. This would have been nice
    to update, especially the slow 1/90 second flash sync. Being able to use the older
    finders could be a side benefit. Unfortunately, I think the pricing would be too
    much to get many sales.
    What if they made you one of the judges at the next pageant?
    Ciao!

    Gordon Moat
    Alliance Graphique Studio
    <http://www.allgstudio.com>
     
    Gordon Moat, Oct 26, 2003
    #9
  10. Lewis Lang

    Lewis Lang Guest

    Howdy Gordon :):
    Or an FM3n? ;-)
    Maybe Nikon could work on that factor - at least possibly getting it down to
    the $400-$500 price point where they'd probably sell a lot more - if they could
    do this w/o sacrificing camera build/operation quality, they might have a
    popular MF camera again ;-).
    I hear you. I think all built-in flashes should raise about 3-4 inches off of
    their bases, _at least_, this could be accomplished by some kind scissors like
    device that would allow the flash to get high off its base yet fold compactly.
    The Maxxum 9 has a pretty durable built-in flash (so does the 7), and even my
    600si, plastic that it is, has never suffered a problem with the built-in
    flash, though a metal black painted (coated) stainless steel scissors
    contraption and/or a metal (or magnesium?) covering might "full proof" it more.
    Also, nobody forces you to use a feeature you don't like, but there might come
    a time when you'd find it handy (like when your out personal shooting and
    you've left your flash at home), and, w/ a 4 in. high built-in flash at least
    red-eye and lens large lens blockage would be pretty much a thing of the past -
    not to mention those uglier shadoes which hug the subject's rim - now if the
    flash could swivel upright in vertical mode (so you don't need a flash bracket
    to do this) so the shadow is cast underneath rather than to the side of the
    subject, you'd really have something there - a first for both Nikon and
    built-in flashes. Anyway, sounds "Nikonliscious" to me ;-) :).
    Not if you like wireless flash without having to spend an arm and a leg on
    multiple SU-4s (Nikon's wireless controller units). Actually its not a mtter of
    either/or - switchable front/rear curtain sync might also be a doable addition
    to high speed wireless TTL flash sync and using the camera's built-in flash as
    a wireless TTL(high speed and normal speed) off camera flash controller.

    I have a feeling Nikon will do this with all? of its new upcoming bodies as I
    believe the Nikon D2H digital already has this (high speed?) wireless TTL flash
    feature (though I doubt it has a built-in flash, haven't remembered the specs
    on that) and its a feature bound to filter down into the next Nikon film and
    digital cameras line (Minolta, Canon and Pentax already have this feature, I
    believe, and the exception being that Canon doesn't have the wireless control
    feature built into the built-in flash and an STE-2 wireless controller or a 550
    EX flash must be used as the wireless controller, however, Canon has more
    groups of flashes w/ precisely settable ratios in each group, the new Nikon D2H
    might have this multiple ratios feature (+ or - 2-3 stops in each flash
    groups), but, again, I'd have to read up on my specs, but for that matter, I'd
    be more interested if this came out in a film body as I wont be going digital
    for a long time - I love both the look and quality and longevity of film). :)

    Set it so that it also works with the manual shutter
    Why not? :)
    Make 'em black and give them a fine imitation leatherette (or similar) covering
    and they'll look like they're compact, sexy "tools" instead of gaudy siilverish
    "chrome" plastic casio wannabes...
    We'll just have to shrink those hands of yours - seen any good hand
    psychologists lately? ;-). Just because a model is small doesn't mean that it
    won't fit your hands well (too many negative qualifiers in this sentence, but
    you get what I mean :)).
    Even some of the more expensive AF-S gear? Also, you're not locked into using
    AF lenses, plenty of used and new MF lenses to choose from w/ that "luxury"
    feel ;-)

    While there may be a few better optical formulas
    Hence a non-interchangeable finder FM3a as the basis for the FM4a - it would be
    cheaper to manufacture and price this way, and also, they could make it more
    "F3HPish" by giving it a slightly higher eyepoint or at least a larger
    viewfinder exit pupil so they wouldn't have to decrease the magnification by
    too much. I should probably "work" for Nikon but I speak rotten Japaneese, and
    they probabably wouldn't listen to me (or anyone elese for that matter) even if
    (or, they,) I did... :-(
    Keep the judges and the contestants, - just give me the cameras as a prize ;-).
    The world is full of beautiful women (and ugly ones too! ;-)) - sorry, my male
    fantasy is a wife, I've seen my share of enough beautiful flakey fashion models
    to last me a lifetime. "Beauty is skin deep, bitchiness is forever" if I might
    quote myself here ... ;-)I'd rather oggle someone I care about, like my future
    wife (whomever she might be) than another mannequine/body :). Actually, I'd
    almost rather ogle an Aria or a good scene to shoot, twisted, I know, but at
    least the cameras aren't shallow (most have at least enough depth to fit the
    film cartridge or the compact flash card or the microdrives ;-)) and don't
    complain or show up late to a shoot ;-)...
    Regards,

    Lewis
     
    Lewis Lang, Oct 26, 2003
    #10
  11. Lewis Lang

    Clanger Guest

    my everyday life is the proof,

    look around you, look at what's promoted in the shops, watch people taking
    pictures,

    and why, who now wants to wait 24 hours for their pics + they have to cart
    them somewhere to be developed. Then only to find 1 or 2 reasonable pics out
    of 24. Then there's the cost of development each time

    afraid the long term does not look good
     
    Clanger, Oct 26, 2003
    #11
  12. Lewis Lang

    Lewis Lang Guest

    Subject: Re: New Nikon FM4a... Why not? :) :) :)
    People buy mostly film disposables or film for their 35mm P&Srs though there is
    a lot of digi hyping around, not everyone buys or buys into the hype.

    watch people taking
    With their film cameras? ;-)
    Plenty of one hour places in the U.S. - can't speak for the UK though... Film
    can be scanned and either sent to a lab via jpegs and the prints sent back to
    them or picked up or just plain printed on an inkjet at home,though I doubt
    many "digiheads" are printing out their 4x6" prints at home either.

    Then only to find 1 or 2 reasonable pics
    This is an exaggeration - there are alot more than 1 or 2 reasonable pictures
    on any roll regardless of whether shot on analog film or digital. It would take
    a major cock up technically and/or the world's worse phototgrapher/P&S'r and/or
    a defective or defectively set camera to come up continually w/ such a low
    ratio of usable shots.

    Then there's the cost of development each time
    No one is forced to get all their pictures developed, I frequently do "develop
    only" (only the negs get developed, no prints made) and then choose only the
    best on the roll by eye - others can choose index prints and choose from the
    mini contact sheet if they don't want the whole roll though most do want the
    whole roll.

    At several hundred dollars, digital cameras, though less expensive than before,
    are hardly as cheap as some film P&S and disposable cameras...
    There are still plenty of film and film cameras being sold from disposables to
    SLRs and a rennaissance of rangefinder (film cameras) and introduction of new
    slide films (the Velvia 100s come to mind immediately). Both film and digital
    will continue to co--exist profitably for some time to come, until they are
    augmented by the next big thing/technology.

    Lewis
     
    Lewis Lang, Oct 26, 2003
    #12
  13. Lewis Lang

    Ron Todd Guest

    .....

    No problem. That patents on most of that stuff have lapsed. Start
    your own company and manufacture your own line to your specifications.



    Best Regards.

    *****************************************
    Boycott list:

    Belgium, France, Germany, Finland, Sweden, Switzerland, PRC, Iran, Syria,
    Hollywood, San Francisco, Massachusetts, New York City, Sierra Club, ACLU,
    Movies of the first blacklist, Turner, Madonna, S. Crowe, Dixie Chicks, Cher, U2, rapp,
    Trudeau, W.Miller, Disney, ABC news, CBS news, NBC news, CNN, PBS, B&H Photo Video, Heinz
    Foods,

    Sometimes the only influence you have is to say, "No, I'm not buying."

    For those who are unclear about the situation, California is the Clinton - Davis model for the rest of the United States of America.
     
    Ron Todd, Oct 26, 2003
    #13
  14. Lewis Lang

    Lewis Lang Guest

    Subject: Re: New Nikon FM4a... Why not? :) :) :)
    Are you going to bank roll that? If not, I'll wait for Nikon to do it :)

    Regards,

    Lewis
     
    Lewis Lang, Oct 26, 2003
    #14
  15. Lewis Lang

    Gordon Moat Guest

    Guten tag Lewis,
    Probably one of the major issues. I looked at one of these when they first came
    out. I still think n FE2 is a better value, though I tend to judge camera gear on
    profit potential. If the price was closer to $350 to $400 discounted, I would be
    much more interested, and I think others might also be more interested. I would
    have to think that Nikon could still make a profit at that level, since much of
    the tooling is evolutionary and derived from long running models.
    I think if it went to the side, then that could avoid some of the red eye effect.
    It also amazes me that none of the built in flashes have reflectors, nor
    diffusers. Getting a softer light off the flash would really help the images, and
    I think many buyers would jump at the capability, and buy into this.
    Why not build the flash into the bottom of the camera? It might give a more
    interesting look, and avoid lots of strange chin and nose shadows. Combine that
    with a soft flash effect, and it could be a market winner.

    Another issue of built in flash is that either the camera top gets larger, or the
    pentaprism gets smaller. These built in flash units take up space, and use battery
    power.
    The TTL flash feature is already there, and evolved from the FE2. I guess the
    wireless flash would be like the Minolta set-up. However, consider that the few
    people who might use this would be pros, and their lighting gear could often cost
    more than the cameras, I do not see this as a good area to save costs on building
    the camera.

    I do not understand what could be so complex that the front and rear curtain sync
    is not more common. In my opinion, this has been the greatest advancement in
    photography, and the one feature set that can really change imagery. Almost all
    other "features" really only allow images that still could have been produced with
    older gear, though it might now be easier to do so. With the flash sync changes,
    there is a real ability to create images that could not be done with older gear.
    Amazing that so few people really take advantage of the rear curtain sync feature.
    I could see the flash units getting better, and allowing more options. With the
    cameras, I think the high development costs, and current economic slump, mean that
    few new releases will happen. Judging by the past notes of Nikon engineers, each
    camera can take a couple years to reach market, or at least half a year with
    digital. Quick evolutionary changes are simpler, and major models take more
    thought.

    The F5 is a heavy beast, though it does nearly everything, and even some things
    that may never be needed by some users. Since the F3 only recently became
    discontinued, it might be a while before seeing an F6. I really do think an F6 may
    appear, though perhaps more as an F5 feature set, and smaller camera. The other
    possibility is copying Leica, and offering a digital back feature, thus allowing a
    film and digital camera in one body, and more of a medium format style system
    approach.

    With the FM3A, any successor will depend upon depleting current stocks. If there
    is an F6 introduces, perhaps Nikon may introduce an FM4 (something like that
    naming), though it could be a year or two later.


    Some of the digital cameras I see people walking around with look a little like
    vintage gear. The retro style look is showing some influence.
    Okay, that is true. I tried out a Voigtländer Bessa-R not too long ago. While that
    camera is quite small, I did find the control placement allowed for easy usage.
    Perhaps a bigger issue with some cameras, is that I am a left eye shooter.
    Sure, I rented an 80-400 mm once, and the manual focus felt loose. I also tried
    out an F100, and that had the 80-200 f2.8 (huge lens), and even that premium glass
    was nothing like using my old 180 mm f2.8.

    Of the newest manual focus choices, the one I find most interesting is the 85 mm
    shift and tilt lens. Unfortunately, it is really expensive. I have yet to see one
    available for rent.
    What they need is a big Japanese guy, with big hands, who uses his left eye for
    photography. ;-)

    The older FM style of three LEDs to indicate exposure can be better under low
    light conditions. With the match needle set-up, it can be almost impossible to
    read the shutter speed, or match the needle. I like the changeable screens, and
    would hate to see that feature omitted.

    Your high eye point without changeable finder seems like another direction worth
    exploring. While the camera might be a little bulkier on top, I think some people
    would like the viewing change.

    Okay, I suppose a woman with more "depth of field" may suit you better. ;-)

    I am a little disappointed that the return of the Nikon rangefinder has only been
    as a high priced collectable. A modern variation of this, closer to FM3A pricing,
    could find a market. With Voigtländer now making an R2S in old Nikon S rangefinder
    mount, and newer lenses to fit this, I wonder why Nikon is dragging their feet.
    They should consider making an affordable rangefinder with TTL metering, and maybe
    some newer flash sync options.

    Ciao!

    Gordon Moat
    Alliance Graphique Studio
    <http://www.allgstudio.com>
     
    Gordon Moat, Oct 26, 2003
    #15
  16. Lewis Lang

    Ron Todd Guest

    The point was that since you want it, you should pay for it.

    Unless of course, you consider it a financially unsound capital
    expenditure. Which would bring up the question, why would you want
    Nikon to damage their company?



    Best Regards.

    *****************************************
    Boycott list:

    Belgium, France, Germany, Finland, Sweden, Switzerland, PRC, Iran, Syria,
    Hollywood, San Francisco, Massachusetts, New York City, Sierra Club, ACLU,
    Movies of the first blacklist, Turner, Madonna, S. Crowe, Dixie Chicks, Cher, U2, rapp,
    Trudeau, W.Miller, Disney, ABC news, CBS news, NBC news, CNN, PBS, B&H Photo Video, Heinz
    Foods,

    Sometimes the only influence you have is to say, "No, I'm not buying."

    For those who are unclear about the situation, California is the Clinton - Davis model for the rest of the United States of America.
     
    Ron Todd, Oct 27, 2003
    #16
  17. Lewis Lang

    Lewis Lang Guest

    Hi Gordon:
    Definitely, a $00 or even a $450 Nikon FA successor would be worth saving for.
    Like the Pentax PZ-1p (and PZ-1?)...
    Better yet, give it a reverse vaccuum back and make it a circular inflatable
    softbox-type device at least 8 inches or more in diameter. When you are
    finished w/ the flash, or merely just want to go back to harder light, just
    touch a button and tell the camera to "sucks it (back) in" :)
    I'd prefer both top and bottom together with the choice of one or the other or
    both left to the user - bottom flash can look inviting or like monster lighting
    depending on angle/closeness to the subject ;-)
    Battery power, yes. But nobody forces you to use it if you don't want to, so
    that's really a non-issue as all flashes take up power, on or off the camera,
    perhaps an add-on battery pack or something like a high powered rechargable
    battery built into the camer would do, but this would make the camera both
    larger and more expensive.
    "Yup". :)

    However, consider that
    Its not for saving costs, its for providing usefulness/value. Gary Waltz
    (spelling?) uses wireless TTL in a lot of his commercial?/PJ work. Its very
    convenient and gives professional results w/o weighing you down to become a
    beast of burden with larger monoblocs and power pack units. Seems like a good
    deal to me. Again, nobody forces you to use a feature if it doesn't suit your
    needs but its nice to know its there if you ever do decide to try this
    different style of compact, convenient, pro-lighting on the go.
    A matter of style/need - not many amatures (read tyros) are into advanced flash
    sync techniques and neither are many pros if you judge by their pictures...
    Maybe as the economy improves...
    About the size of an Aria? ;-) That would give Nikon pros a hemmorage or three
    ;-) (as they're used to large(r) beasties. A more compact/lighter/less
    expensive F200 w/ built-in wireleess highspeed TTL would be great! SO would an
    N85 w/ most of these features and the ability to meter w/ MF lenses again! :)

    The
    Definitely a thought/possibility...
    Or an FA2 ;-)
    Describe. What color, shape, etc.?
    MD-15 motor-drive?
    Isn't the 85/1.4 AF well built/up to your MF feel specifications?
    Could you fake being Japaneese?, you may be their man! :), LOL!
    How about glowing needles painted w/ a flouresecent or radium-like substance
    that glows in the dark w/o battery power, also on the aperture numbers of the
    lenses too. Would make it hard not to stand out in a crowd, though as you'd
    look like "ghost photographer" sans Bill Cosby (played the lead in the movie
    "Ghost Dad" which i've never seen).
    And how! :)
    Depth of emotion and depth of kindness might be better, with my wide angles I
    already have more than enough depth of field... ;-)
    Sounds like a plan. E-mail Nikon about it, though I doubt they'll listen, "its
    woth a shot" or 36 ;-).

    Regards,

    Lewis
     
    Lewis Lang, Oct 27, 2003
    #17
  18. Lewis Lang

    Lewis Lang Guest

    Subject: Re: New Nikon FM4a... Why not? :) :) :)
    The point was, since I want a new camera model I'd pay for that model (if it
    met my needs), not fund an entire mass production of this new camera.
    Sheeesh!!!

    Why should I pay for an entire line of cameras, I'm an individual buyer, not
    Nikon, Inc.! Your question seems ridiculous to me. I, _as an individual_, would
    pay for a model of this camera, not to revive the entire line of this camera
    model (that would be up to Nikon and other individuals and/or groups that would
    buy this same new camera model). Funding a whole mass production of a new body
    in the Nikon line would be too much for any one man save Bill Gates and a few
    others. I am not rich, are you? If you are you might consider this. Which
    brings up the question, why would you even ask me the question "why would you
    want
    Nikon to damage their company?" in the first place. Of course I wouldn't want
    Nikon to damage their company, but just because one model doesn't sell well
    doesn't mean its revised/more advanced successor wont sell well - nobody knows
    the future. If you do know the future then you'd probably have made more than
    enough money to bankroll this new camera model yourself, so why not bankroll
    the camera and find out, if you're interested, or don't, your choice.

    Lewis
     
    Lewis Lang, Oct 27, 2003
    #18
  19. Lewis Lang

    Gordon Moat Guest

    Guten morgen Lewis,
    Not familiar with that one. Some of the little P&S cameras do fairly well at
    getting the flash a bit away from the lens, though unfortunately few allow much
    creative control.
    I would think the old fan style idea would work well. Sort of like a collapsible
    dish, shaped like the dish used on a Sunpak 120J.
    Some cameras suck bad enough as it is . . . . . . .
    Dual flash would not be that tough. The battery might not last as long, but the
    additional light, and distribution, could be good.
    Yeah, though that is why Quantum packs are popular. Add more battery power, and
    the recycle times are better, plus the output can be greater.
    My Sekonic L-358 also allows fitting of a wireless unit. The initial set-up can
    include the on camera transmitter, and the receivers on the lights. The camera
    transmitter unit is large, but if the camera were designed to take the same piece
    that the Sekonic takes, it can be a really small item, and barely add any weight
    or bulk to the camera. Still seems like an idea for something like an F6, rather
    than lower priced gear.
    Must not be many sales of these wireless units. Slave units, or lights with built
    in slave, are another option, and often lower in cost. This aspect of lighting is
    a bit specialized.
    Shame really. That was the one thing I wanted to test out on the F100, though I
    did not get the opportunity. Perhaps next time rental. The flash sync differences
    open up some avenues of creative exploration, though I am not sure what I would do
    as a start.
    Yeah, I have heard the funny comment several times that you need to carry a large
    camera, or several, to many paid shoots, since the large cameras impress some
    clients. I was once told a similar thing about tripods, that a brand new and shiny
    tripod did not imply experience, but scratched and worn indicated lots of use . .
    .. With that in mind, my last tripod purchase was new legs, and a very used three
    way head.
    I am probably being prejudicial here, but I really do not see the N80 as a good
    choice. Mostly, it did not feel right to me. The F100 was more to my ergonomic
    liking, and probably the lowest on the Nikon autofocus hierarchy that I would
    consider. The N80 (or later successor), or even the lowly N65, should be more than
    capable of generating compelling images in the right hands.
    I saw the matrix metering more as a gimmick. I also have little use for shutter
    priority, and would rarely use program mode. I do not miss the FA at all.
    Silver, with black highlights, or even leatherette. Some of the leatherette looks
    more tan, though mostly black. The smaller point and shoot versions pull this off
    better, especially since the compact size is somewhat like old rangefinder gear.
    More like MD-11 or MD-12 (still made). The bulk is one issue. The single shot mode
    would get around the advance lever being in the way, but since I shoot lots of
    verticals, it does not bother me. I really like the feel of advancing the film . .
    .. and I have no good answer why I like it.
    Okay, that one would be a good choice. However, consider that the older AIS 85 mm
    f1.4 has an even better focus feel, and is quite a bit cheaper used, and why
    bother with the AF version. Of the 85 mm choices, I like the results from the f2.0
    version the most, though only near wide open. The smaller barrel size of the f2.0
    is also more to my liking. Then, as we had discussed before, there is always the
    Voigtländer 75 mm . . . . too many choices.
    At my height, I would probably get lots of stares in Japan.
    Interesting . . . sort of like watches. I wonder why none of the companies have
    done that. It might be interesting to try and paint some on the needle in an old
    FE, just to try it out.
    Actually, your idea is not as crazy as it seems. There are many choices of
    illumination that do not need batteries, though some may be mildly radioactive.
    Okay, I will look into that, and find out who to ask at Nikon. The other option is
    that Kobayashi-san at Voigtländer might get around to introducing a rangefinder
    with a greater base length, making longer lenses easier to accurately focus.
    Rumour is that a new rangefinder will be introduced prior to the end of this year
    .. . . . .
    Ciao!

    Gordon Moat
    Alliance Graphique Studio
    <http://www.allgstudio.com>
     
    Gordon Moat, Oct 28, 2003
    #19
  20. Lewis Lang

    Lewis Lang Guest

    Subject: Re: New Nikon FM4a... Why not? :) :) :)
    Buenos Dias Senor Gordon,
    Pentax's previous top of the line 35mm SLRs.

    Some of the little P&S cameras do fairly well
    That's a possibility too :)
    Don't we know it :)
    Extra batter built into camera for flas or hook up a Turbo or a Jack Rabbit on
    the outside...

    They seem to be doing OK in this area of size of pentaprism plus built in
    flash...

    These built in flash units take up space, and
    Yup, see above.
    The camera would already use its built-in flash as the wireless controller and
    the flash sensor already resides in the camera body for _reflective_ light
    measuring wireless TTL flash. What you describe is more of a wireless TTl flash
    system for incident wireless flash TTL
    What I'm talking about is a wireless TTL flash system that already uses the
    camera' built-in flash (or OEM) flash on hot shoe) as a wireless controller and
    other
    OEM wireless TTLflash units used as off camera slaves. not that expensive for
    Minolta, more expensive for Canon.
    "Experimenting... That's where the fun begins..." (quoting myself...) :)
    LOL, all you need now is a futuristic paint job that changes from new to worn
    looking and back again at the press of a button...
    The N80 could be improved in features/durability w/o making it the size of a
    F100. Nikon made a near F3 like body (same strong metal frame) in the EM. Nikon
    could both feature up and beef up the N80 and still fit it into a compact,
    lightweight durable frame w/ faster motor drive, built-in IR AF assist,
    compatability in metering w/ all Nikon's MF lenses from AI on up, wirelless
    highspeed sync TTL flash, higher eyepoint, etc. Pentax did it w/ its magnesium
    shelled MZ-S (except for its slowish 2.5 f.p.s. motordrive), Nikon could do it
    too, if they wanted too...
    Iguess its a matter of needs/shooting style, a high-eyepoint FM4a/FA2 would
    suit me just fine...
    The MD-15 let the camera draw power from the motor drive - a very valuable
    feature in my opinion :).

    The bulk is one issue. The single
    It has the feeling of hands on/direct involvement in the creative act. I like
    manually winding too, but when the action requires it, I'm glad for a built-in
    or add on motor drive...
    :)

    However, consider that the older
    Because the AF is a brand new design and possibly sharper/more blades?/etc.,
    and, because its AF of course which is nice to have when you need it:)

    Of the 85 mm choices, I like the results from
    And the older 85/1.8 AI? MF and the (re-designed?) AF version of that lens too
    After a couple of generations, they're starting to get taller too, especially
    the basketball players ;-).
    I think Minolta may have done something like that on the controls of the Maxxum
    9 but not inside the camera on its lollypop metering needle - that comes "Only
    from the mind of Lewis"... :) ;-) LOL

    It might be interesting to try and paint some on the needle in
    Or... *****Nikon can include it on the New Nikon FM4a ;-)*****
    Must be another way to do it besides radioactivity... lightening bugs come to
    mind?... ;-) :)
    While you're into that, relay them my info about the FM4a, kjust incase I'm not
    able to make it over to the Photo Expo/Javitz show this year... :)

    The other
    Sounds nice. Now if they'll only come out w/ an aperutre priority rangefineder
    w/ 1/250 sec/ flash sync using Leica M mount lenses w/ no shutter delay between
    power on and pressing the shutter button down they'd have a hit! "I shal call
    it the Besa FM74a" ;-)
    Regards,

    Lewis
     
    Lewis Lang, Oct 29, 2003
    #20
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