New Nikon FM4a... Why not? :-) :-) :-)

Discussion in 'Nikon' started by Lewis Lang, Oct 25, 2003.

  1. Lewis Lang

    Gordon Moat Guest

    Boun giorgno,
    Okay, you really need to check out the new SB-800 flash from Nikon. I think this
    is what you are describing:

    One bad thing about the new Nikon SB-800, is that all the features currently only
    work with the D2H. However, since the new release indicates that all the features
    should work with a film camera, this seems to point the way for new film cameras.
    Whether that is the F6, or perhaps the new flash capability in a lower model, has
    yet to be seen.
    Funny how Leica introduces a new paint with the MP, that wears faster, and calls
    it a "feature". The "distressed" look of leather jackets ten years ago has now
    made it to cameras. Of course, I would bet the collectors are having heart
    failure, though they probably only handle an MP with gloves on anyway. If the
    brassed, worn, and distressed look became really popular, most of my gear would be
    worth a fortune . . . . . ;-)
    I never did understand why only the F5 has the option to be modified to take the
    older non-AI lenses. It would seem that the same could be done to the F100, since
    it only requires a moveable tab, like the old FM and FE. Anyway, I would expect an
    N85 in the future, probably an F200 at some point, or at least an F6 (with the new
    flash capability).
    Okay, could be useful. Seems similar to the extra power booster of some new
    cameras. The thing about the MD-12, was that the cameras it connects onto do not
    draw much power, so perhaps the power through was not considered necessary at the
    design stage.
    The older AI, compared to the AIS, has a longer focus throw. While that does not
    bother me on the shorter lenses, like the 50 mm f2.0, I do not like it as much on
    the longer lenses. The 85 mm f1.8 and f2.0 are very similar optically, and the
    results are very similar. If I found an older f1.8 at the same pricing as an f2.0,
    I would consider it.

    However, with the PK-11 on the 105 mm f2.5, I may never purchase an 85 mm, nor
    rent one again. Basically, my creative composition options are so similar that
    way, and the framing close enough, plus I like the 105 mm f2.5 results better.
    This goes back to why I stated I liked the 85 mm tilt lens, since that is a
    creative area I have not tried with 35 mm gear.
    Too much dependence on the external LCD display. The camera companies are trying
    to get people more use to using there cameras at arms length, rather than holding
    them up to their eye. ;-)
    What . . . . a little radiation never hurt anyone . . . . . (Elvis has now left
    the building) . . . . . :-/
    Not so sure if they want to compete with Konica and the Hexar RF. If Konica added
    TTL flash control to the next Hexar RF, then they would basically have an M7, but
    nearly half the cost.

    I really wonder what Voigtländer will have out next. The too short baselength, on
    all their rangefinder cameras except the Bessa-T, should really be addressed. Auto
    exposure would be nice, though I do not really expect them to change to an
    electronic shutter, so I would be very surprised to see that.

    Ciao!

    Gordon Moat
    Alliance Graphique Studio
    <http://www.allgstudio.com>
     
    Gordon Moat, Oct 29, 2003
    #21
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  2. Lewis Lang

    Lewis Lang Guest

    Subject: Re: New Nikon FM4a... Why not? :) :) :)
    Sonny Bono (and Cher and Chastity) to you too :)
    Though my browser won't load at the moment, I believe I've been there before as
    it is this new flash (and its wireless TLL/wireless high speed sync too? - I
    can't remember the specs offhand) that goes w/ the D2H (and Nikon MF lenses,
    the FM3a/FM4a and my EM ;-) and looking at some of my older work w/ the 25-50
    AIS and the 50/1.8 Series E (both older and newer work) that have gotten me
    interested in Nikon again.
    For now...

    However, since the new release indicates that all the
    Exactly what I'm hoping for in an updated N85 or F200 ;-).
    Too large, too expensive, and the bank doesn't mint denominations large enough
    to pay for this new camera ;-)...

    or perhaps the new flash capability in a lower model,
    I hope we both see it, "Yeti or not, here comes the snow man" ;-)
    Its always a feature, regardless of whether it adds to the camera's usefulness
    or aesthetics or not :).

    The "distressed" look of leather jackets ten years ago

    Weren't they doing that to blue jeans in the '70's and the '80's too?

    has
    I guess my Contax 167MT shoulld pay for a house since its been brassed and
    Krazy glued up the yin yang (why can't one ever go down the yin yang and where
    does one turn to get to a yin yang - does Mazda have the patent on it like the
    rotary engine?).

    Add magnesium body (a la the Pentax MZ-S (current top of the line compact AF
    Pentax) or the EOS 1v/Elan7(e) - at least one of these has got to have a
    magnesium shell/top plate), style more like the one function per dial control
    layout of the Maxxum 600si it ripped off, give it a higher, make that real high
    authentic Nikon high-eyepoint, 1/250 sec. flash syn/yadda yadda yadda and give
    it the same meaty grip of the 600si and your hands/eyes/fingers will be
    singing...

    The F100 was more to my
    Great camera but on the large side, I prefer 600si size or smaller. Also the
    rubber peeled on a demo I handled, not very good craftsmanship, but the Contax
    167MT had a similar problem, the rubberette would "grow/get larger so you'd
    have to trim it then glue it back on (hence my "Lewis Lang Krazy Glue Special
    Edition COntax 167MT to celebrate 50 years of Krazy glue and peeling Contax
    35mm SLR body coverings" ;-)).

    and probably the lowest on the Nikon autofocus hierarchy that
    Again if they beefed up the N80 w/ magnesium/etc. and brought some of the
    switches up to spec (I forget which one had a problem w/ breakage reports when
    it first came out, possibly the Continuous AF/Single AF/Manual AF switch?) and
    kept the small size, you might have just have a change of heart :).

    The N80 (or later successor), or even the lowly N65, should
    Mine or that Gorilla who took pictures with an Olympus for National
    Geographic's hands... ;-)

    Hey, I just said that! :) Genius repeats like a bad meal w/ acid reflux
    disease ;-).
    I think the N90s takes MF lenses, will it take the non-AI, if not, then you can
    always have a lens AI modified, I guess, though with so many AI and AIS lenses
    about it would hardly pay unless it was alens and/or a focal length you loved.
    Nikon's AI, AIS and Series E lenses all more than meet my needs, its the N80
    and lower camera's inability to meter with them that gets me rankled, though
    some AI?/AIS Nikon lenses can be "chipped" to meter w/ AF cameras,
    unfortunately not one of the best ones, the 105/2.5 since there's no chip for
    that aperture.

    It would seem that the same could be done to the F100,
    Exactly what I'm hoping for and possibly for an FM4a too :)
    Most camera's motor drives boost speed or give you alternate power sources
    switchable from AA to CR123's and/or 2CR5s, I mentioned the MD-15 because it is
    similar to an MD-12 but actually powers a MF camera, only the MD-4 motor drive
    in Nikon's line does that w/ the aperture priority Nikon F3(hp) and the MD-15
    with the Nikon FA. Its a good concept and complements the FM3a/FM4a's design of
    mechanically backed up shutter speeds by backing up the auto exposure with
    extra power directly from the motor drive instead of some additional external
    battery pack or through bringing along extra batteries. I think its a darn good
    idea and Nikon should do it if they come out with an FM4a and an MD-16
    motordrive :).

    The thing about the MD-12, was that the cameras it connects onto
    One of the cameras it mated to was the FM(2)(n) series which was a
    manual/mechanical camera that only lost metering w/o juice, the FE(2) was also,
    though automatic, more of a mid-line camera. The FA that powered off of the
    MD-15 was probably considered if not in the pro league then close to it
    basically being distinguished by being Nikon's first full spectrum AE
    multi-mode camera (no Nikon up to that time included both program and aperture
    priority and shutter priority and manual exposure all in the same camera).
    The 85/1.8 AI? was a nice lens, I used to use it to shoot fashion when I was
    shooting with my F3 in the '80s.
    Because of its ultra smooth bokeh/oof rendition. How does the PK-11 (extension
    tube) help you with your photography/look (what purpose does/would it serve in
    making your images - make the bokeh even smoother, give the lens a semi-macro
    option, etc.)?

    Perhaps you could rent one and give it a play around with?
    I like both info inside and outside the camera, I used to hate having to climb
    a chair when my camera was semi-high up on a tripod. Maxxum 7 cures that w/ its
    back LCD that is illuminated at the photographer's option. Anyway, a glowing
    lollypop needle and other controls that glow but are not reliant on battery
    power seems like a good way to go...

    Or... *****Nikon can include it on the New Nikon FM4a ;-)*****
    Or... *****Nikon can include it on the New Nikon FM4a ;-)*****
    Or... *****Nikon can include it on the New Nikon FM4a ;-)*****
    Or... *****Nikon can include it on the New Nikon FM4a ;-)*****

    ;-)
    ;-)
    ;-)
    ;-)

    Nikon can cend me my free Nikon FM4a w/ glowing lollypop needle/etc. as payment
    in the mail ;-)

    There are many choices
    With a little radiation or "vampire viagra" Elvis could _be_ (as large as) the
    building ;-).
    More expensive, but a possibility, they really seem to have their act together
    and are turning out quality rangefinder cameras and lenses at decent prices, a
    retro lover's dream...

    ....Can't wait to see what it is and what features it will have... ;-)
    Voigtlander's will be the less expensive camera w/ aperture priority and high
    speed sync but w/o the built-in motor-drive (though they might come out w/ an
    add on motor drive and/or winder that the camera could power off of just like
    the Nikon FM4a ;-)).

    If Konica
    Then Voigtlander could come out with its Bessa 3 w/ aperture priority and high
    speed sync w/o the motor drive at half the price of the Konica Hexar RF2 ;-)...
    Retro Happy Meal cameras w/ bumper stickers that say "I break for Burt
    Reynold's's camera" and a free fries and a Big Gulp w/ every purchase of 50 or
    more gallons from participating gas stations ;-).

    The too short baselength,
    Hopefully, it will :).

    Auto
    I wouldn't, its not like its ultra high technology, probably well w/i the range
    of doability and they'd have a hot little seller that had aperture priority and
    took Leica M lenses w/ a high speed flash sync - a sort of revival of the
    Minolta CLE which has gone way up in price since I owned one (along w/ most of
    the other 20th/21st century cameras/brands I've owned including a Rollei SL26
    (took 126 cartridges of Kodachrome but nice interchangeable SLR Zeiss lenses).
    Creme de Cacao!

    Retrogards,

    Lewis FM4a ;-)
     
    Lewis Lang, Oct 30, 2003
    #22
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  3. Lewis Lang

    Gordon Moat Guest

    Probably not a low cost flash, but it seems to be a nice item. I hope the discount
    pricing will be somewhat reasonable, but we will see. This could be the best
    Speedlight since the SB-16.
    Yeah, the pricing may be quite high. These top of the line 35 mm cameras are
    nearly as big as some medium format gear, and similar in pricing. Since most
    medium format gear is more digital ready, and can use film, it seems to be a
    better long term investment. That makes the longer lenses about the only advantage
    for 35 mm sized gear with the big cameras.
    Could be . . . clothing trends circulate in something like ten or twenty year
    cycles, with odd mixtures from many eras in new ideas. Tough to be a victim of
    fashion. ;-) I think the best cue is just looking at the designers, who mostly
    just wear black shirts and jeans. They are probably having a good laugh on the
    rest of the population, by dressing people up to look like complete dorks. Anyway,
    I wear mostly black, though my camera gear mixes black and chrome (aluminium).
    Zoom, zoom . . . . .
    You know, the Pentax and Minolta camera lines actually have some nice cameras. I
    hate to be biased against these cameras, but past experiences caused that. I had a
    K1000 once, and it was a piece of shit. With the Minoltas, I have seen too many
    that friends had that experienced electrical failures. Likely that my experience
    is just coincidence, but I would never buy a camera from either company. Even
    stating that, I think that both companies offer the best value for the money in
    low end new gear, especially for those getting more into photography than the P&S
    level.
    I am surprised you did not get an RTS or RTS II as your primary Contax SLR. I
    really like the Contax line, and was almost tempted to go that direction. What
    stopped me was the lack of rental gear, and that really is what got me into Nikon.
    The lens choices of the past have kept me with Nikon. Medium format is another
    story, and it is nice to see more Contax 645 gear available for rental, though a
    shame about the high new cost. I keep following used prices, and a Contax 645
    might be a future consideration.
    Usually the same switch gear that troubles many cameras, the command dials. Sony
    has had so much trouble with these on hand held gear and phones, I am surprised to
    see them used so much on cameras. I feel that the choice to use these was bad.
    Some people really like these things, but I hate the ergonomics.

    Push buttons are a separate item, and like laptop keyboards, they eventually stick
    or break. Having an easy way to repair them would help. Another issue is that
    repair costs are often too high, meaning that many cameras do not get repaired. I
    am sure the camera companies like that they sell more cameras. It would be nicer
    if the repairs were more user friendly, or at lower cost.
    Sure, the 35 mm f2.8 shift lens. That alone is really a great lens, even used
    unshifted, and especially wide open. Unfortunately, it is not AI, and will hit the
    tab on most Nikon cameras, including the FM3A, so is not really usable on newer
    bodies.
    Though the F5 does not have that metering limitation. I think that perhaps some
    Matrix meter mode may not function with some lenses, but I have never had a need
    for much more than centre weighted. When I need more accuracy, I use my Sekonic
    L-358.
    Aperture priority meets my photography needs quite well for auto exposure. I do
    quite a bit of manual settings, even with auto exposure gear, just because I know
    what I want to achieve. I find that manual exposure settings can be faster than
    using the exposure compensation dial, plus if I forgot about the exposure
    compensation, I could ruin a following shot, which is less of a problem at manual
    settings.

    A few longer term professionals still have an FE or FE2 in use. The most famous of
    those is Antonin Kratochvil, now with Seven Photo <http://www.sevenphoto.com>. He
    still uses an FE for some of his photography. In fact, reading about his using one
    got me interested in getting one about six years ago. I will probably keep mine
    for quite a while.

    A friend of mine got a Canon Elan 7E a little over a year ago. He asked me why I
    don't use a more automated camera, and my reply was that my experience replaced
    much of the automation, so a more automated camera would just have lots of wasted
    features and control switches. However, for those less experienced with exposure
    issues, the automation makes for easier and more enjoyable photography.
    Mostly. The other reason is that the focus depth falls off very abruptly, making
    some subjects really separate well from the background. I guess you could call
    this the 3D look, something that some people claim is only possible with certain
    brands of gear.
    The PK-11 is only 8 mm in depth, so it really does not help much in Macro. The
    advantage is the closer focus capability. You can frame in your subject really
    close, and the control over ultra short depth of focus, and short depth of field,
    produce some interesting results. I wish I had something scanned to share, but the
    change is dramatic.
    I have yet to find any place that has one. Definitely no places that rent any
    locally. Perhaps when I travel I might find one.
    If it was $100 to $200 more, it could still undercut the used Leica, new Konica,
    and much of the other rangefinder choices, like CL and CLE. If they put a bigger
    viewfinder on the T, but with the high magnification, that would be an easy on,
    but I really think a longer rangefinder base would function better. Of course, it
    would mean a new top housing, meaning tooling changes, and expense would be an
    issue.

    A used Leica M2 or M3 can be had for around $700 in usable condition, without need
    for repairs. Keep a newer Voigtländer with longer baselength under that pricing
    (street, not retail), and I think there would be a market.
    They already have the manual winder, so a motor drive would be easy to add to the
    accessories. Unfortunately, their pricing is getting too close to the Konica, and
    unless Konica discontinues the Hexar RF, I just do not see them competing. An
    unusual possibility would be if Konica sold off the Hexar RF line to Voigtländer,
    especially with all the changes possible after the Konica Minolta merger.
    Okay, speculation would now be a Bessa R3, or a Bessa T2. Wonder which direction
    they will take . . . . or perhaps a completely different direction.
    Yeah, the CLE used prices have gone to silly levels. I guess that should indicate
    that there is some market for the technology. This would mean a tooling change to
    accommodate a newer electronic shutter, and the extra control pieces. Combine this
    with a tooling change to increase the rangefinder base, and they could have a
    competitor to the Leica M7 and Konica Hexar RF.

    Ciao!

    Gordon Moat
    Alliance Graphique Studio
    <http://www.allgstudio.com>
     
    Gordon Moat, Oct 30, 2003
    #23
  4. Lewis Lang

    Bogrod Guest

    I think it would be neat if Nikon threw some modern matrix metering
    into a manual focus camera, and of course included an AE lock onto an
    updated version of an FA. :)

    But what I think would be really nice for manual focus cameras is for
    Nikon to finally include spot metering.
     
    Bogrod, Oct 31, 2003
    #24
  5. Lewis Lang

    Lewis Lang Guest

    Subject: Re: New Nikon FM4a... Why not? :) :) :)
    Sounds great to me :). Can't wait to see if Nikon brings out this camera or
    something like it :).

    Regards,

    Lewis
     
    Lewis Lang, Nov 1, 2003
    #25
  6. Lewis Lang

    Ron Todd Guest

    You miss the point.

    People on here say I want an FM4a, I want
    Ektar 25, I want K25, I want APX 25 and on and on...

    None of them do anything about it. (Weren't you the one who lambasted
    EK for dropping K25, and then said you hadn't bought any since 1997?)

    They all want someone else to "give" it to them....

    The world isn't a free lunch, if you want it, you have to take
    (considerable) risk and build it.

    (The K25 and EK25 are probably bad examples as apparently Kodak kept
    them on the market long after it was obvious they were loosing money
    on them.) ((Bad Idea on EK's part, it tends to reinforce the idea
    there is a free lunch.))



    Best Regards.

    *****************************************
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    Hollywood, San Francisco, Massachusetts, New York City, Sierra Club, ACLU,
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    Trudeau, W.Miller, Disney, ABC news, CBS news, NBC news, CNN, PBS, B&H Photo Video, Heinz
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    Sometimes the only influence you have is to say, "No, I'm not buying."

    For those who are unclear about the situation, California is the Clinton - Davis model for the rest of the United States of America.
     
    Ron Todd, Nov 5, 2003
    #26
  7. Lewis Lang

    Lewis Lang Guest

    You miss the point.
    I bought plenty of K25 for many years (along w/ K64), I was paying for "that
    lunch" and if they'd bring it back I'd be happy to pay for more Ektar 25 and
    K25 "lunches".
    Good will is priceless. A similar situation to Nikon, they keep on making more
    (amature) cameras that can't take the old lenses and meter with them. If Nikon
    ever discontinued their F mount in favor of a new, from scratch, EOS-like mount
    they'd have an up-roar (not that Nikon is that compatable w/ all features of
    their lenses across the board of cameras right now either, but at least the old
    MF lenses are being produced and will at least mount on vritually all recent
    models if not meter with them). If Nikon ever discontinued their professional
    film and/or digital cameras (for not making enough profit) there would be a
    similar uproar. Nikon until 2001? still made the F3 (and there are still some
    new on shelves out there) so obviously there is a market for high level MF
    gear, the F3 and its variations lasted for about 20 years. If Nikon still made
    the F3 people would still be buying them, despite all the used ones already on
    the market. Some people just want to buy new, even at Leicaesque prices. I
    know, I was one of them. Though I no longer am into a Nikon professional system
    (I have a remnant of an EM and a Series E 50mm my brother gave me which I use
    for snap shooting and serious shooting now), I bought an F3 in '83 as well as
    an F3T for about $800 or so in the late '80's which is probably in 2003
    equivalent money (about $1200 or so?) what you'd pay for a regular brand new
    F3HP today. Not to mention the various Nikon MF lenses I bought new. So before
    you mention anything about "free lunches" you should carefully consider that I
    paid for some, no, many of those lunches Nikon eats with the film gear I
    purchased from them. And I still hold steadfast to the FM4a idea, it would be a
    great (near) "replacement" for both an F3HP and a perfect add on to the FM3a if
    done right with high eyepoint, high speed/wireless flash, up to the FM3a/FM2n
    level of quality, multiple exposure modes, spot metering, power off of a winder
    and the drive, etc. But most of all, just like Voigtlander who specializes in
    such "niches", and Leica to a certain extent with their M cameras, Pentax w/
    its now discontinued? (except in Japan?) LXs and Ltd. lenses it would show both
    Nikon quality and good will in an age where both these things are becoming as
    plastic/shallow as most cameras and lenses.

    Time will tell, with Nikon and with Kodak. There are markets willing to buy an
    FM4a and/or a K25 or Ektar 25-like film (though possibly at a slightly higher
    speed with newer Agfa-like ultra-fine grain technology, technology and the
    market place will determine their economic viability, not yours and mine
    discussions about either Nikon or Kodak lunches, free or otherwise.
    Regards,

    Lewis
     
    Lewis Lang, Nov 7, 2003
    #27
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