New Nikon J1/V1 sensors = half the surface area of micro 4/3rds!

Discussion in 'Digital Cameras' started by RichA, Sep 21, 2011.

  1. RichA

    RichA Guest

    RichA, Sep 21, 2011
    #1
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  2. RichA

    RichA Guest

    Worse decision, they kept the stupid 3:2 format. What an epic
    mistake. Sensor is 13.2mm x 8.8mm.
     
    RichA, Sep 21, 2011
    #2
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  3. The 3:2 is just fine. I'll bet about 99% of all machine-made prints are 4x6"
    from the local Walmart, Walgreen's or whatever. Also, I'm sure most people
    nowadays are using widescreen monitors, laptops and TVs, and 3:2 lends
    itself to such screen sizes a lot better than 4:3 does.

    The camera does not look entirely uninteresting, but $900 list with a modest
    kit lens? Oy.

    Also, I can't say I think much of "Nikon 1" as a series name. It seems
    unimaginative, unappealing and inaccurate all at the same time. And it
    reminds me of the Vivitar lenses of 40 or so years ago.
     
    Neil Harrington, Sep 21, 2011
    #3
  4. RichA

    Bowser Guest

    Nah, the "1" name is a stroke of jeenyus. As the line progresses, they
    can release the 1D, then the 1D Mark II, and then the...
     
    Bowser, Sep 21, 2011
    #4
  5. RichA

    Paul Furman Guest

    The name seems honest that it's an entry level model to the 'system
    camera' world. The camera modes don't include any aperture priority or
    manual type control, and that's probably not needed for the most part.
    It probably makes sense to downscale this mirrorless idea rather than
    have it larger and un-compact like the Sony NEX with big lenses and to
    have the price actually competitive against larger SLRs.

    I'm kind of interested in something that does video, which I don't have
    at all and the pancake lens makes it pretty small although adding $250
    for that to the $650 with kit lens, I dunno about that. Maybe if you can
    get with pancake 30mm eq lens only for $650...

    http://www.engadget.com/2011/09/21/nikon-unveils-v1-and-j1-mirrorless-cameras-10-1mp-cmos-2-7-inc/
     
    Paul Furman, Sep 21, 2011
    #5
  6. Don't get too eager, from what I've seen - still cameras appear
    to produce relatively poor video quality compared with even
    fairly inexpensive video cameras, especially at 720p. If you
    pay "big bucks" for a full-frame still camera that also does
    video, maybe - but the price, size, weight, and loss of some
    basic features for video may make this solution less than
    appealing. There may be others, but the Panasonic TM700 video
    camera does shoot excellent video (at 1920x1080 60p), and also
    decent-quality stills. Now if only it wasn't so hard to get
    good audio with this camera, unlike with the HDV Canon
    HV20/30/40 - but that camera's stills are not very good, and
    its video is not as sharp as the Panasonic's. As for the new
    Nikon cameras, they can shoot at 60i, but I haven't seen a
    specification for the video shooting data rate, and the usual
    "high quality" 17Mbps rate really isn't all that good (the
    28Mbps of the twice-the-temporal resolution of 60p looks very
    noticeably better). BTW, I just looked at the video samples
    on the site above. In a word, "UGH!"
    --DR
     
    David Ruether, Sep 21, 2011
    #6
  7. Ryan McGinnis, Sep 21, 2011
    #7
  8. You did note my comment, "If you pay 'big bucks' for a full-frame
    still camera that also does video, maybe - but the price, size,
    weight, and loss of some basic features for video may make this
    solution less than appealing", didn't you? And also the price
    area that Paul Furman mentioned (which does not include $5,000 to
    $8,000 bodies...)? And, Paul's apparent interest in compactness
    (and likely light weight...)? [And that we follow the convention
    of bottom-posting here?] Yes, suitable still cameras can be used
    for shooting good video footage (as can good much cheaper video
    cameras), but much serious feature film production work is still
    done with the big dedicated video and the film cameras normally
    used for this purpose.
    --DR
     
    David Ruether, Sep 21, 2011
    #8
  9. RichA

    Me Guest

    The V1 does in fact have A/S/M exposure options - but accessible via
    menu rather than mode button.
    Nikon claim that the hybrid AF is the fastest AF system that they've
    produced on any camera, including the D3s. (but no doubt this is helped
    by smaller format's deeper DOF and lightweight lenses)
    With all other mirrorless cameras currently produced, AF performance is
    at best, only at the level of entry-level slrs for static objects, even
    with specially designed lenses, and effectively useless for focus
    tracking on moving subjects. Nikon claim that this system is capable of
    accurate focus-tracking at 10 fps. If true, then...
    So this system isn't going to be capable of shallow DOF from larger
    sensor cameras, and will be hobbled in terms of ultimate image quality
    by the smaller format. But it looks much better on paper than what's
    been available in compact cameras, and the hopefully fast/accurate AF -
    if it lives up to the claims - should be a killer feature for the target
    market, people taking photos of their kids playing etc etc.
     
    Me, Sep 21, 2011
    #9
  10. RichA

    Savageduck Guest

    ....but give me at least a single control wheel under my thumb.
    Let me make those changes to mode without having to dig through a damn menu.

    Who cares how fast this AF is if all the other features are buried in
    menus. With my D300s and my G11 I can make the change in A/S/M without
    removing my eye from the VF.
    Regardless of the other issues, Nikon got this concept right on the
    P7100 by aping the G11/G12. With this offering they have failed the
    photographer to appeal to a niche which would be better served by
    another manufacturer's camera or a DSLR.
    I can make exposure adjustments without digging through menus. I will
    need more convincing than merely being faithful to the brand.

    The Fuji X10 is more appealing to me. So I will stick with my D300s and
    G11 which serves me well when I need something compact.

    This is going to take a lot of selling to that market at that price
    point. Why buy this, when an entry level DSLR would serve them just as
    well at lower cost? Why buy this when most of those you have IDed as
    part of the target market are going to be happier with a compact or
    Super zoom, at a lower price point and never know what they were
    supposed to be happy with by paying the premium for the V1?
     
    Savageduck, Sep 21, 2011
    #10
  11. RichA

    Me Guest

    I don't disagree with you, but you (and I) have probably been using
    cameras of various formats and types for decades. We're not the target
    market.
    If they released this with some fast (and it would need to be really
    fast) glass at reasonable price, then maybe - but I don't think that's
    going to happen.
    I wouldn't underestimate the impact, if the AF system works as well as
    claimed. Entry level slrs - even some expensive ones like the Canon
    5DII - and compact cameras aren't very good at focus tracking, and users
    are often disappointed with the results taking photos of their kids,
    pets, etc etc. I'd wager that more users are disappointed with blurry
    out of focus shots than are disappointed by lack of ability to reduce
    DOF beyond sensor size determined limits, image noise at higher ISO, or
    ultimate resolution not being good enough for billboard-sized prints
    (IOW the limitations of smaller sensors).

    The prices do seem quite high. The 10-100mm VR would probably be a
    popular lens, but I wonder how much that costs?
     
    Me, Sep 21, 2011
    #11
  12. RichA

    Rich Guest

    Well, if they can charge $700 for newly released, cheap plastic DSLR with
    modest if any improvements over the last cookie-cutter model, then I
    don't begrudge them what the want for this new one.
     
    Rich, Sep 22, 2011
    #12
  13. RichA

    Paul Furman Guest

    Ah, OK - the $650 J1 is plastic: "The [not yet released $900] V1 is
    intended as the higher-end model in the lineup and features magnesium
    alloy construction and a 1.4M dot electronic viewfinder."
     
    Paul Furman, Sep 22, 2011
    #13
  14. I can see the value of that but I belive that to Nikons main target group for
    these cameras those options (PASM) are mostly considered visual noise that
    competes with the scenes modes (sport, landscape, night) and makes the camera
    hard to understand and use.
    How is it to work with the P7100? I'm considering a V1, but I do wonder how
    it will compare to usability of a DSLR, and I assume some of the basics on
    the V1 will be inherited from the P7100.

    On my DSLR find that I do not use A/S/M very often, what I find myself doing
    frequently though is: in P mode, use the front and rear wheel to adjust the
    shutter or aperture to control depth of field and motion blur; and use exposure
    compensation button to adjust brightness.

    On a P7100, are those three, shutter, aperture, exposure comp, easily
    available, or do I need to hunt for that in the menu system? And how do
    you imagine this is solved on the V1?

    I see that there is a knob for exposure compensation on the 4-way control
    pad, and dpreview mentions[0] some rocker lever used to adjust aperture in
    A and M modes. But what about shutter control?

    [0] http://www.dpreview.com/articles/3281713418/nikon-1-system-first-impressions/2
     
    Fredrik Jonson, Sep 22, 2011
    #14
  15. RichA

    Bruce Guest


    You obviously failed to understand that these cameras are not aimed at
    you, nor at people like you. The target market is that of people who
    take pictures but do not consider themselves photographers. People
    who shoot for Facebook.

    For people who consider themselves photographers, Nikon has an
    extensive DSLR range whose entry-level pricing is likely to be
    slightly cheaper than the more expensive of the two 1 System cameras.
     
    Bruce, Sep 22, 2011
    #15
  16. RichA

    Bruce Guest


    At last, someone who understands! ;-)
     
    Bruce, Sep 22, 2011
    #16
  17. RichA

    RichA Guest

    At least it's new and not just a retread.
     
    RichA, Sep 22, 2011
    #17
  18. RichA

    Savageduck Guest

    They are going to shoot for Facebook with a $600-$900 system camera? It
    seems to me all those folks need is a compact or superzoom and keep
    costs below $350.
    They already are.
     
    Savageduck, Sep 22, 2011
    #18
  19. RichA

    otter Guest

    And they add a few rather expensive accessories to the cameras when
    they shoot those TV shows and movies.
     
    otter, Sep 22, 2011
    #19

  20. This is probably true -- but Nikon is not the only company out there. I
    can understand them wanting to protect their cash cow, but now, instead of
    cannibalizing their core product with mirrorless cameras, they're
    potentially going to allow other companies to do so. I'm not too hip on
    the mirrorless thing myself, but it does look like it's going to be the
    future replacement for consumer DSLRs. Joe public will take reduced size
    any day.
     
    Ryan McGinnis, Sep 22, 2011
    #20
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