New Polaroid/Foveon Digicam

Discussion in 'Digital Cameras' started by R2D2, Feb 9, 2004.

  1. R2D2

    R2D2 Guest

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  2. I posted a few images using the SD9 in 4.5MP mode, the Polaroid should do
    even better, considering it is the 3rd generation Foveon chip...

    http://www.pbase.com/image/25908336/medium
    http://www.pbase.com/image/25910324/medium
    http://www.pbase.com/image/25909556/medium

    Man, that bandwidth is tiny, and it has the exact same optical color
    resolution as the Canon 10D!

    Here is 10.3MP for comparison...
    http://www.pbase.com/image/25909558/medium
     
    George Preddy, Feb 9, 2004
    #2
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  3. That's a 1.5 megapixel sensor. Even if all of the Foveon semsor
    problems have been solved (unlikely), at best it can produce really good
    1.5 MP images. It's competing against cameras from other manufacturers
    that are 3, 4, or 5 megapixels, and these other cameras will always
    capture more fine detail.

    A Foveon-sensor camera might be interesting if they could produce
    sensors with the same number of pixels as the competing Bayer cameras.
    But it seems Foveon is even further behind the current state of the art
    in small sensors than they are in large sensors. (The SD9/SD10 are 3.4
    MP when the competing cameras are 6 MP).

    Dave
     
    Dave Martindale, Feb 9, 2004
    #3
  4. R2D2

    CoolJohn Guest

    I can't believe that some are so stupid that they don't see the fact that
    the Foveon sensor uses ONE pixel to see three colors, and a 3 megapixel
    image sensor from them IS equal to allot more than a standard 6 megapixel
    Bayer sensor.
    Is their head full of SHIT ? I guess it is .
    Go and read on the workings of the X3 and then you might open your eyes
    dumass.
    I bet in three years all cameras will have some form of the X3 in them, even
    Canon, they might be working on right now. I bet they have one in their lab.
     
    CoolJohn, Feb 9, 2004
    #4
  5. No, they know Bayers aren't competitive or they'd post images.
    lab.

    I'm certain they are trying, but you have to realize that Foveon's small
    staff has more CMOS and silicon expertise than all other manufactures
    combined. They literally wrote all the books. On their staff they have the
    inventors of the monochrome sensor now used in Bayers, the full color sensor
    in Foveon, the VLSI process used to make CMOS chips, the microprocessor, the
    digital video camera, adaptive silicon, you name it.
     
    George Preddy, Feb 9, 2004
    #5
  6. It has 1.5MP of full color information, same as the Canon 10D (actually
    1.58MP).
     
    George Preddy, Feb 9, 2004
    #6
  7. Now hoa - calm down a while here. It is of course better with 6 Mpixel RGB
    values than 6 Mpixel R, G or B values. NO one is arguing against that. But
    - 3 MFoveon pixels has less resolution than 6 MBayer pixels
    - Foveon pixels are not RGB, not even close. The green channel
    contains more blua end red than green.
    - Foveon/Sigma has choosen not to use anti aliasing filters.
    Still believe that 3 MFoveon is way better than 6 MBayer?
    Nicely put. We are impressed.
    The X3 pages at Foveon are full of BS. I guess that the product
    did not really live up to the origibal expectations and needed
    som creative marketing.
    Hmmm ... is it not spelled dumbass?
    I bet they are not and have not :)

    OK - they might do - and nothing wrong with that. I don't think anyone
    has declared that Bayer is the final answer.


    /Roland
     
    Roland Karlsson, Feb 9, 2004
    #7
  8. A 6MP Bayer only has complete 1.5M RGB sets. Same thing. In fact, when you
    select the Foveon's interpolated output mode (same degree as Bayer always
    uses), it records 6M output pixels. No difference.
     
    George Preddy, Feb 9, 2004
    #8
  9. R2D2

    Bill M Guest

    Yawn...nobody here believes your kindergarten math anymore, trot
    along...
     
    Bill M, Feb 9, 2004
    #9
  10. Counting is indeed kindergarten math. Count em... 1.5M.
     
    George Preddy, Feb 9, 2004
    #10
  11. SNIP
    The Polaroid has a Foveon chip has three layers of 1.5 million sensors
    each...
    I don't see the relevance of a 3.4MP image interpolated to 4.5MP, in the
    context of a new 1.5MP camera.

    Bart
     
    Bart van der Wolf, Feb 9, 2004
    #11
  12. You're wrong. Does that make you a 'dumass' too? Or does that mean your
    head's 'full of SHIT'?
    lab.

    Canon filed for this patent in 1996 and it was granted in May 2002 ...
    http://www.uspto.gov/patft/index.html ... Then click on 'Quick Search' and
    enter this patent number: 6388709. Note that this differs from the Foveon
    concept but the net result is that each individual photosite on the sensor
    will record R G & B values
     
    Simon Stanmore, Feb 9, 2004
    #12
  13. R2D2

    Bill M Guest

    Done...Canon 10D has 6 million + pixels. As explained many times
    before, adding the 6 million + together to make them "full color
    information" is idiocy.
     
    Bill M, Feb 9, 2004
    #13
  14. R2D2

    R2D2 Guest

    (Annika1980) wrote

    ROTFL
     
    R2D2, Feb 10, 2004
    #14
  15. Since the sensor in the SD9 has 2268 columns x 1512 rows (as stated at
    http://www.sigma-photo.com/Html/news/news_sd9_fs.htm) it has only 3.43
    million pixels an image of 5.5MP is fraudulent.
     
    Ian Robert Walker, Feb 10, 2004
    #15
  16. A 6MP Bayer sensor does not uses RGB sets, if it had then it would only
    output luminance at 1.5M locations; it does not, it outputs luminance at
    6 million locations. However the SD9 with 3.4MP only outputs luminance
    at 3.4 million locations, anything more is fraudulent.
     
    Ian Robert Walker, Feb 10, 2004
    #16
  17. The SD9 has a MED resolution capture mode (1512x1008x3) which closely
    matches
    that 4.5 'MP' resolution (1420x1060x3) of that smaller Foveon sensor.
    That was meant by the original poster and is a relevant comparison.

    Regards
    Guido
     
    Guido Vollbeding, Feb 10, 2004
    #17
  18. They are just blind to see the shit of their Bayer output.
    They (Canon et.al.) must indeed be embarrassed that their images compare
    so poorly against the Foveon images. They are obviously bound to their
    investments in obsolete Bayer technology and are not able to do something
    better right now. Poor guys...

    Regards
    Guido
     
    Guido Vollbeding, Feb 10, 2004
    #18
  19. Dave, you are fooling people here.
    If the Foveon is 1.5 MPs, then the others are 3/3, 4/3, or 5/3 MPs.
    The other (Bayer) cameras will always capture digital artifacts.
    The competing cameras are 6/3 MP, then.

    Regards
    Guido
     
    Guido Vollbeding, Feb 10, 2004
    #19
  20. The Bayer sensor does NOT output luminance at ANY location!
    But this seems impossible to understand for dreaming people like you.

    Regards
    Guido
     
    Guido Vollbeding, Feb 10, 2004
    #20
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