New Sony Sensor Technology May Help Solve Problems with P&S Cameras

Discussion in 'Sony' started by SMS, Aug 6, 2009.

  1. SMS

    SMS Guest

    "http://tinyurl.com/sonyexmor"

    This sensor may help solve one of the biggest problems with small sensor
    P&S digital cameras, the poor results in low light situations.

    No reason they could not extend this to larger D-SLR sensors as well,
    though with larger pixels there's less of an advantage to having the
    wiring underneath since the wiring represents a much lower proportion of
    the total area.

    Canon's lead over Nikon in large sensors, while still significant, has
    shrunk now that Nikon has managed to come out with a full frame sensor
    (though of lower resolution). Now Sony may have some disruptive technology.

    Hopefully it works better than the Foveon sensors.
     
    SMS, Aug 6, 2009
    #1
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  2. SMS

    Me Guest

    SMS wrote:
    > "http://tinyurl.com/sonyexmor"
    >
    > This sensor may help solve one of the biggest problems with small sensor
    > P&S digital cameras, the poor results in low light situations.
    >
    > No reason they could not extend this to larger D-SLR sensors as well,
    > though with larger pixels there's less of an advantage to having the
    > wiring underneath since the wiring represents a much lower proportion of
    > the total area.
    >

    Too late to say "no reason they could not..."
    "...celebrates the launch of new Cyber-shot, Handycam and ? DSLR models
    featuring the Exmor R CMOS sensor"
    http://australia.sony.com.au/SonyTwilight/about-the-prize.html

    Are the "Exmor R" sensors for still cameras also using the "Clearvid"
    RGB array with reduced ratio of B&R to G, or as the name suggests is
    "Clearvid" for Exmor R video cameras, and the still cameras have a more
    conventional RGBG pattern colour filter?
     
    Me, Aug 6, 2009
    #2
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  3. SMS

    nospam Guest

    In article <4a7b196f$0$1675$>, SMS
    <> wrote:

    > Canon's lead over Nikon in large sensors, while still significant, has
    > shrunk now that Nikon has managed to come out with a full frame sensor
    > (though of lower resolution). Now Sony may have some disruptive technology.


    with the d3 sensor, it is nikon who has the lead over canon, and
    nikon's 24 megapixel sensor is not a lower resolution than canon's 21
    megapixel sensor.

    > Hopefully it works better than the Foveon sensors.


    can't be any worse. :)
     
    nospam, Aug 7, 2009
    #3
  4. SMS

    Me Guest

    nospam wrote:
    > In article <4a7b196f$0$1675$>, SMS
    > <> wrote:
    >
    >> Canon's lead over Nikon in large sensors, while still significant, has
    >> shrunk now that Nikon has managed to come out with a full frame sensor
    >> (though of lower resolution). Now Sony may have some disruptive technology.

    >
    > with the d3 sensor, it is nikon who has the lead over canon, and
    > nikon's 24 megapixel sensor is not a lower resolution than canon's 21
    > megapixel sensor.
    >

    The D3x sensor is way ahead of the Canon 21 mp sensors. The point that
    it might not be strictly speaking a "Nikon sensor" - so doesn't count -
    smacks of religious delusion or trolling.
     
    Me, Aug 7, 2009
    #4
  5. SMS

    Ray Fischer Guest

    nospam <> wrote:
    > SMS


    >> Canon's lead over Nikon in large sensors, while still significant, has
    >> shrunk now that Nikon has managed to come out with a full frame sensor
    >> (though of lower resolution). Now Sony may have some disruptive technology.

    >
    >with the d3 sensor, it is nikon who has the lead over canon, and


    Even if true that's a stupid statement for the simple reason that a
    camera is not a sensor. People don't buy or use sensors. They buy
    and use cameras.

    --
    Ray Fischer
     
    Ray Fischer, Aug 7, 2009
    #5
  6. SMS

    nospam Guest

    In article <4a7ba8b0$0$1601$>, Ray Fischer
    <> wrote:

    > >> Canon's lead over Nikon in large sensors, while still significant, has
    > >> shrunk now that Nikon has managed to come out with a full frame sensor
    > >> (though of lower resolution). Now Sony may have some disruptive technology.

    > >
    > >with the d3 sensor, it is nikon who has the lead over canon, and

    >
    > Even if true that's a stupid statement for the simple reason that a
    > camera is not a sensor. People don't buy or use sensors. They buy
    > and use cameras.


    but people buy cameras because they have a particular sensor. they'll
    pick the d3 or d700 because of its high iso performance. this is most
    apparent with the foveon fanatics, who pick a really shitty camera only
    because it has this supposedly magical sensor.
     
    nospam, Aug 7, 2009
    #6
  7. SMS

    Ray Fischer Guest

    nospam <> wrote:
    > Ray Fischer
    >
    >> >> Canon's lead over Nikon in large sensors, while still significant, has
    >> >> shrunk now that Nikon has managed to come out with a full frame sensor
    >> >> (though of lower resolution). Now Sony may have some disruptive technology.
    >> >
    >> >with the d3 sensor, it is nikon who has the lead over canon, and

    >>
    >> Even if true that's a stupid statement for the simple reason that a
    >> camera is not a sensor. People don't buy or use sensors. They buy
    >> and use cameras.

    >
    >but people buy cameras because they have a particular sensor.


    Nonsense. Even among real photographers damn few care about the
    sensor. It's the camera that counts.

    > they'll
    >pick the d3 or d700 because of its high iso performance.


    And not because of the sensor.

    > this is most
    >apparent with the foveon fanatics, who pick a really shitty camera only
    >because it has this supposedly magical sensor.


    "Fanatics" are, by definition, not rational.

    --
    Ray Fischer
     
    Ray Fischer, Aug 7, 2009
    #7
  8. SMS

    Charles Guest

    On Thu, 06 Aug 2009 10:58:09 -0700, SMS <>
    wrote:

    >"http://tinyurl.com/sonyexmor"
    >
    >This sensor may help solve one of the biggest problems with small sensor
    >P&S digital cameras, the poor results in low light situations.
    >
    >No reason they could not extend this to larger D-SLR sensors as well,
    >though with larger pixels there's less of an advantage to having the
    >wiring underneath since the wiring represents a much lower proportion of
    >the total area.
    >
    >Canon's lead over Nikon in large sensors, while still significant, has
    >shrunk now that Nikon has managed to come out with a full frame sensor
    >(though of lower resolution). Now Sony may have some disruptive technology.
    >
    >Hopefully it works better than the Foveon sensors.



    Twice as sensitive? That's what, one /f stop?
     
    Charles, Aug 7, 2009
    #8
  9. SMS

    nospam Guest

    In article <4a7bc24f$0$1593$>, Ray Fischer
    <> wrote:

    > nospam <> wrote:
    > > Ray Fischer
    > >
    > >> >> Canon's lead over Nikon in large sensors, while still significant, has
    > >> >> shrunk now that Nikon has managed to come out with a full frame sensor
    > >> >> (though of lower resolution). Now Sony may have some disruptive
    > >> >> technology.
    > >> >
    > >> >with the d3 sensor, it is nikon who has the lead over canon, and
    > >>
    > >> Even if true that's a stupid statement for the simple reason that a
    > >> camera is not a sensor. People don't buy or use sensors. They buy
    > >> and use cameras.

    > >
    > >but people buy cameras because they have a particular sensor.

    >
    > Nonsense. Even among real photographers damn few care about the
    > sensor. It's the camera that counts.


    and that's largely due to the sensor. had the d3 had a larger d2x
    sensor, few people would be as impressed.
    >
    > > they'll
    > >pick the d3 or d700 because of its high iso performance.

    >
    > And not because of the sensor.


    the high iso performance is due to the sensor.

    > > this is most
    > >apparent with the foveon fanatics, who pick a really shitty camera only
    > >because it has this supposedly magical sensor.

    >
    > "Fanatics" are, by definition, not rational.


    true.
     
    nospam, Aug 7, 2009
    #9
  10. SMS

    Ray Fischer Guest

    nospam <> wrote:
    >In article <4a7bc24f$0$1593$>, Ray Fischer
    ><> wrote:
    >
    >> nospam <> wrote:
    >> > Ray Fischer
    >> >
    >> >> >> Canon's lead over Nikon in large sensors, while still significant, has
    >> >> >> shrunk now that Nikon has managed to come out with a full frame sensor
    >> >> >> (though of lower resolution). Now Sony may have some disruptive
    >> >> >> technology.
    >> >> >
    >> >> >with the d3 sensor, it is nikon who has the lead over canon, and
    >> >>
    >> >> Even if true that's a stupid statement for the simple reason that a
    >> >> camera is not a sensor. People don't buy or use sensors. They buy
    >> >> and use cameras.
    >> >
    >> >but people buy cameras because they have a particular sensor.

    >>
    >> Nonsense. Even among real photographers damn few care about the
    >> sensor. It's the camera that counts.

    >
    >and that's largely due to the sensor.


    Nope. Lenses, shutter, computers, batteries, controls, menus. All
    that counts for more.

    >> > they'll
    >> >pick the d3 or d700 because of its high iso performance.

    >>
    >> And not because of the sensor.

    >
    >the high iso performance is due to the sensor.


    Only partly. Without the CPU to take care of processing the image the
    sensor would be just another sensor. Without the code to take the
    sensor data and turn it into pixels you wouldn't even have an image.

    >> > this is most
    >> >apparent with the foveon fanatics, who pick a really shitty camera only
    >> >because it has this supposedly magical sensor.

    >>
    >> "Fanatics" are, by definition, not rational.

    >
    >true.



    --
    Ray Fischer
     
    Ray Fischer, Aug 7, 2009
    #10
  11. SMS

    Ray Fischer Guest

    Re: New Sony Sensor Technology May Help Solve Problems with P&SCameras

    Rich <> wrote:
    >On Aug 7, 1:57 am, (Ray Fischer) wrote:
    >> nospam  <> wrote:
    >> > Ray Fischer

    >>
    >> >> >> Canon's lead over Nikon in large sensors, while still significant, has
    >> >> >> shrunk now that Nikon has managed to come out with a full frame sensor
    >> >> >> (though of lower resolution). Now Sony may have some disruptive technology.

    >>
    >> >> >with the d3 sensor, it is nikon who has the lead over canon, and

    >>
    >> >> Even if true that's a stupid statement for the simple reason that a
    >> >> camera is not a sensor.  People don't buy or use sensors.  They buy
    >> >> and use cameras.

    >>
    >> >but people buy cameras because they have a particular sensor.

    >>
    >> Nonsense.  Even among real photographers damn few care about the
    >> sensor.  It's the camera that counts.
    >>
    >> > they'll
    >> >pick the d3 or d700 because of its high iso performance.

    >>
    >> And not because of the sensor.

    >
    >A D700 without the FX sensor is a D300. If your theory is correct, NO
    >one would have bought a D3.


    Except for all of those people who wanted a D3 for other reasons.

    How many people buy a sensor without buying a camera?

    --
    Ray Fischer
     
    Ray Fischer, Aug 7, 2009
    #11
  12. SMS

    Ray Fischer Guest

    Re: New Sony Sensor Technology May Help Solve Problems with P&SCameras

    Rich <> wrote:
    >On Aug 7, 3:14 am, (Ray Fischer) wrote:
    >> Rich  <> wrote:
    >> >On Aug 7, 1:57 am, (Ray Fischer) wrote:
    >> >> nospam  <> wrote:
    >> >> > Ray Fischer

    >>
    >> >> >> >> Canon's lead over Nikon in large sensors, while still significant, has
    >> >> >> >> shrunk now that Nikon has managed to come out with a full frame sensor
    >> >> >> >> (though of lower resolution). Now Sony may have some disruptive technology.

    >>
    >> >> >> >with the d3 sensor, it is nikon who has the lead over canon, and

    >>
    >> >> >> Even if true that's a stupid statement for the simple reason that a
    >> >> >> camera is not a sensor.  People don't buy or use sensors.  They buy
    >> >> >> and use cameras.

    >>
    >> >> >but people buy cameras because they have a particular sensor.

    >>
    >> >> Nonsense.  Even among real photographers damn few care about the
    >> >> sensor.  It's the camera that counts.

    >>
    >> >> > they'll
    >> >> >pick the d3 or d700 because of its high iso performance.

    >>
    >> >> And not because of the sensor.

    >>
    >> >A D700 without the FX sensor is a D300.  If your theory is correct, NO
    >> >one would have bought a D3.

    >>
    >> Except for all of those people who wanted a D3 for other reasons.
    >>
    >> How many people buy a sensor without buying a camera?

    >
    >Technically, anyone who has switched brands to get better image
    >quality has done that,


    You really are an idiot. You're too stupid to grasp the obvious fact
    that people buy cameras. Cameraqs that have dozens to hundreds of
    components. To insist that people ignore the usability, the
    ergonomics, the performance, and focus only on a sensor that they
    cannot even measure is pure stupidity.

    > the sensor and hence image quality coming
    >first.


    Logical fallacy: Assuming the conclusion.

    --
    Ray Fischer
     
    Ray Fischer, Aug 8, 2009
    #12
  13. Re: New Sony Sensor Technology May Help Solve Problems with P&S Cameras

    On Sat, 8 Aug 2009 11:00:09 +0200, Alfred Molon <>
    wrote:

    >In article <4a7cd81c$0$1603$>, Ray Fischer
    >says...
    >> You really are an idiot. You're too stupid to grasp the obvious fact
    >> that people buy cameras. Cameraqs that have dozens to hundreds of
    >> components. To insist that people ignore the usability, the
    >> ergonomics, the performance, and focus only on a sensor that they
    >> cannot even measure is pure stupidity.

    >
    >But the sensor is the most important component in a camera. The other
    >electronics and the software also play a role, but the sensor plays the
    >most important role.


    No, the lens is more important than the sensor. If you have a sharp lens
    then your image quality is only limited by the weakest link, the sensor's
    resolution. I don't buy a camera unless the lens is capable of single-pixel
    detail resolution over most all of its aperture range. Then you know you
    have a good camera.
     
    Correction Police, Aug 8, 2009
    #13
  14. SMS

    Ray Fischer Guest

    Re: New Sony Sensor Technology May Help Solve Problems with P&S Cameras

    Alfred Molon <> wrote:
    >In article <4a7cd81c$0$1603$>, Ray Fischer
    >says...
    >> You really are an idiot. You're too stupid to grasp the obvious fact
    >> that people buy cameras. Cameraqs that have dozens to hundreds of
    >> components. To insist that people ignore the usability, the
    >> ergonomics, the performance, and focus only on a sensor that they
    >> cannot even measure is pure stupidity.

    >
    >But the sensor is the most important component in a camera.


    Arguable.

    > The other
    >electronics and the software also play a role, but the sensor plays the
    >most important role.


    Betamax

    --
    Ray Fischer
     
    Ray Fischer, Aug 8, 2009
    #14
  15. SMS

    nospam Guest

    Re: New Sony Sensor Technology May Help Solve Problems with P&S Cameras

    In article <>, Correction
    Police <> wrote:

    > >> You really are an idiot. You're too stupid to grasp the obvious fact
    > >> that people buy cameras. Cameraqs that have dozens to hundreds of
    > >> components. To insist that people ignore the usability, the
    > >> ergonomics, the performance, and focus only on a sensor that they
    > >> cannot even measure is pure stupidity.

    > >
    > >But the sensor is the most important component in a camera. The other
    > >electronics and the software also play a role, but the sensor plays the
    > >most important role.

    >
    > No, the lens is more important than the sensor. If you have a sharp lens
    > then your image quality is only limited by the weakest link, the sensor's
    > resolution.


    if you have a low resolution and/or noisy sensor, the best lens in the
    world won't help.

    > I don't buy a camera unless the lens is capable of single-pixel
    > detail resolution over most all of its aperture range. Then you know you
    > have a good camera.


    no camera can have single pixel resolution. it's a mathematical
    impossibility.
     
    nospam, Aug 8, 2009
    #15
  16. SMS

    barry cade Guest

    Re: New Sony Sensor Technology May Help Solve Problems with P&S Cameras

    "Stephen Henning" <> wrote in message
    news:p...
    > Alfred Molon <> wrote:
    >
    > > But the sensor is the most important component in a camera. The other
    > > electronics and the software also play a role, but the sensor plays the
    > > most important role.

    >
    > So in a film camera, the camera isn't important, only the film.


    So how else would you explain why people were still lugging around large
    format film and plate cameras around for decades following the introduction
    of 35mm in the 1920's ?

    BC



    > --
    > Pardon my spam deterrent; send email to
    > Cheers, Steve Henning in Reading, PA USA - http://rhodyman.net
     
    barry cade, Aug 8, 2009
    #16
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