Newspaper article - case studies

Discussion in 'Video Cameras' started by Mitchell, Jun 2, 2006.

  1. Mitchell

    Mitchell Guest

    Hi all,

    I'm writing an article on camcorders and camcorder formats and would
    like to speak to anyone who uses either HDD, DVD or Mini DV models
    about the benefits and drawbacks of these formats in everyday use and
    from an editing point of view.

    I know I could ask the "industry analysts" or the manufacturuers, but
    I'd much rather get a steer from people who actually use the beasts.

    Many thanks for any input

    Stewart Mitchell
     
    Mitchell, Jun 2, 2006
    #1
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  2. Mitchell

    G Hardy Guest

    You'd actually be better off talking to manufacturers. If there was a chance
    you were "reviewing" their product, they would send you one for the duration
    of your research, and then the opinions you write would be your own and not
    other peoples'.

    I'm surprised you ask in here. We almost never agree - so how do you know
    that the person whose opinion you get is actually right?

    ;o)
     
    G Hardy, Jun 2, 2006
    #2
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  3. Mitchell

    :::Jerry:::: Guest

    would
    I doubt he has ever read the group before, if he has at all, call me
    cynical but this sounds like a typical "Can I get some plonkers on an
    internet group to do my work / project for me" post to me.
     
    :::Jerry::::, Jun 2, 2006
    #3
  4. Mitchell

    G Hardy Guest

    NO IT DOESN'T

    ....

    ....

    ....

    I did say we almost never agree ;o)
     
    G Hardy, Jun 3, 2006
    #4
  5. Mitchell

    :::Jerry:::: Guest

    Well, I might be cynical but at least I'm not gullible, I think we
    will have to agree to disagree - but considering that the OP hasn't
    (yet) returned.....
     
    :::Jerry::::, Jun 3, 2006
    #5
  6. Mitchell

    G Hardy Guest

    Well, I might be cynical but at least I'm not gullible, I think we
    You do realise it was a joke?
     
    G Hardy, Jun 3, 2006
    #6
  7. Mitchell

    :::Jerry:::: Guest

    Opps!

    Sorry about the reply, I had just spent an hour sorting out a
    hardware problem in one of the computers, never knew a simple power
    supply / heard drive upgrade could turn into a network problem -
    don't you just love it when two problems hit simultaneously.
    Grrrr....
     
    :::Jerry::::, Jun 3, 2006
    #7
  8. Mitchell

    Mitchell Guest

    Thanks for all the useful help, chaps. I didn't come back sooner
    because didn't see much point in responding to a few half baked
    assumptions.

    It is fairly common practice to ask experts, which I assumed you were,
    for their opinions. It's part of journalism, ideally making sure that
    we take on board the everyday experience built up over time that can't
    be achieved with a straight review. If you were going to spend £1000
    on a camcorder would you rather have the opinion of a reviewer based on
    a week's trial or someone who'd used the camera for months?

    It's a pity that so many aficionados are too far up their own apertures
    to offer any kind of help to the novices of the world.
     
    Mitchell, Jun 7, 2006
    #8
  9. Mitchell

    Tony Morgan Guest

    You fail to recognise that most people will assert that their own
    particular video camera is the best (within it's budget range) - simply
    because folk aren't going to make the admission that what they have
    chosen isn't the best choice. It's human nature.

    Conclusions regarding the relative merits (or not) of HDD, DVD and
    MiniDV are quite easy to determine - simply by looking at the media and
    video formats that they employ.

    Since you have obviously not bothered to do this - and you really
    *should* have done this as a first step before asking here, I'll run
    through what seems obvious (to most of the regulars here I would
    think)..

    First, a few basics....

    DV (as employed by MiniDV) is generally accepted as being non-lossy [1].
    MPEG-2 is lossy [1]. Since DVD uses VOB files (which are essentially
    MPEG-2) the format's video is lossy. HDD uses MPEG-2 - again lossy [1].

    HDD and DVD video cameras offer several recording variants, e.g.HQ (high
    quality), STD (Standard quality), LP (long play) and EP (extended play).
    The actual naming depends on the particular manufacturer. All these
    settings do is adjust the sampling rate to range from high quality with
    short recording times through to low quality with long recording times.
    Irrespective of the user selection, the resulting quality is likely to
    be lower than that associated with DV AVI which is captured from MiniDV
    video cameras - and with some settings the MPEG-2/VOB will be much lower
    quality.

    Once that is understood, then there's only two remaining things to
    recognise.

    With DVD video recorders, may people don't want to go to the trouble of
    capturing to a PC and then editing - all they want is a sort of
    "instamatic" camcorder so they can just transfer the disk to their DVD
    player and watch. If they do want to do some editing, because the format
    is lossy then the resulting quality will leave much to be desired - but
    maybe they aren't concerned about the quality.

    To a certain extent the above downside (of DVD camcorders) is applicable
    to HDD video cameras. But there's a further issue here. Someone who goes
    away on holiday clutching his HDD video camera (and who selects any of
    the higher quality settings) may well run out of disk space. Again they
    can choose to use one of the LP setting which will degrade the quality.

    On a level playing field, a HDD video camera is likely to be more
    expensive because of the relatively high cost of the small hard disk
    drives (compared with both DVD and MiniDV drives). There's also a
    weight/size factor where HDD and DVD video cameras are usually heavier
    and larger than the equivalent MiniDV video recorder.

    And there, IMHO, you have it all. If you are interested in editing your
    video and achieving relatively high quality, then MiniDV will be here
    for a long time. If you're just a snap-happy videographer, then DVD is
    the way to go. If you want to use your video camera over long periods
    without having to transfer your video to a PC then HDD is NOT the way to
    go.

    [1] The terms lossy and non-lossy may require a few
    words of explanation. MPEG-2 (and VOB) files, if
    processed by a video editor are likely to need
    "re-rendering" which reduces quality in a way that
    is cumulative - the more times the video is
    edited/re-rendered the worse the quality will fall.
     
    Tony Morgan, Jun 7, 2006
    #9
  10. Mitchell

    G Hardy Guest

    It's fairly common practice (or at least it should be) that newsgroup
    posters read the charter before posting. If you had, you'd have seen the
    "rec" in "uk.rec.video.digital" stands for Recreational - which demotes the
    vast majority of denizens in here (me included) from the status of "expert".

    Is assumption a part of journalism? Remind me to never to believe anything I
    read in the papers again.

    Oh, hang on... ;o)
     
    G Hardy, Jun 7, 2006
    #10
  11. Speak for yourself! I see plenty of complaints here regarding
    people's own equipment.
     
    Laurence Payne, Jun 7, 2006
    #11
  12. Mitchell has achieved a remarkable feat. He's got a group full of
    hobbyists falling over each other to say "Don't ask me! I know
    nothing!"

    Except Tony, of course, who says "No-one here knows anything, but I'LL
    set you straight" :)
     
    Laurence Payne, Jun 7, 2006
    #12
  13. Mitchell

    Tony Morgan Guest

    Sorry - that should have read 'and not getting answers or opinions'.
     
    Tony Morgan, Jun 7, 2006
    #13
  14. Mitchell

    :::Jerry:::: Guest

    Thanks for all the useful help, chaps. I didn't come back sooner
    because didn't see much point in responding to a few half baked
    assumptions.

    Hmm, but if you had replied earlier there would not have been the
    need for those assumptions.

    It is fairly common practice to ask experts, which I assumed you
    were,
    for their opinions. It's part of journalism, ideally making sure that
    we take on board the everyday experience built up over time that
    can't
    be achieved with a straight review. If you were going to spend £1000
    on a camcorder would you rather have the opinion of a reviewer based
    on
    a week's trial or someone who'd used the camera for months?

    I would prefer an expert, if it's only a weeks experience so be, but
    that week is probably worth more than 12 months use by someone who
    doesn't know their white balance from their iris.

    It's a pity that so many aficionados are too far up their own
    apertures
    to offer any kind of help to the novices of the world.

    There is help and there is writing copy for someone...
     
    :::Jerry::::, Jun 7, 2006
    #14
  15. Mitchell

    G Hardy Guest

    Wha...? I must have blinked and missed that bit. Did anyone record it?
     
    G Hardy, Jun 7, 2006
    #15
  16. Bollocks. It was mostly you and Jerry slagging each other off.
     
    Laurence Payne, Jun 8, 2006
    #16
  17. Yes sir. Sorry sir.
     
    Laurence Payne, Jun 8, 2006
    #17
  18. Mitchell

    franklin.sr Guest


    Yes...it was August 12, 2001 09:00-11:35

    Man that was some day. Jerry:, with but a single colon to his name had
    not yet been lobotomised. Tony still had a day time job in an office
    where he could bore his colleagues ad naseum, obviating the need to do
    so on this newsgroup.


    It was the most successful 2 hours and 35 minutes of this N.G
     
    franklin.sr, Jun 8, 2006
    #18
  19. Mitchell

    franklin.sr Guest



    Tony, coming from you that has to be THE most incredulous statements of
    not just this millennia but the previous as well.

    Kind of like Hitler being on trial and saying "Now hang on a second,
    don't misconstrue my words. I didn't say I had anything against the
    Jews..."

    This ng has never been friendly so long as you and colon boy have been
    here. You at least have penned much useful advice - but just as much
    poison too. As for colon boy he's about as much use as nipples on a
    wheelbarrow and exists only to try and prove others wrong.

    I actually laughed when I read you say that...that's how ludicrous you
    are.
     
    franklin.sr, Jun 8, 2006
    #19
  20. Mitchell

    :::Jerry:::: Guest

    <snip>

    Why don't trolls like you shove you anonymous google groups (and your
    latest morphing) up your own well uses back orifice and crawl back
    under to your rock in that slim ridden pond.
     
    :::Jerry::::, Jun 8, 2006
    #20
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