Nikon 8700 "Flexible Program" question

Discussion in 'Nikon' started by Ken_B, Apr 8, 2005.

  1. Ken_B

    Ken_B Guest

    I just got this 8700 a couple of days ago, and I can't get it into Flexible
    Program. The manual doesn't really explain how to get into it. Apparently an
    asterisk is supposed to appear on the screen as you rotate the command dial,
    but it doesn't. Can anyone help me with this?
     
    Ken_B, Apr 8, 2005
    #1
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  2. Ken_B

    Ed Ruf Guest

    IIRC, the 8700 is pretty much the same as my old 5700. First set Program
    Mode, P-mode, by holding the mode button down while rotating the command
    dial.until P shows.

    From the manual"
    To use the flexible program, set the camera to P (programmed auto), then
    turn the command dial until the desired combination of shutter speed and
    aperture appears in the monitor or viewfinder.
     
    Ed Ruf, Apr 9, 2005
    #2
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  3. Ken_B

    Ken_B Guest

    Thanks for the reply, but those instructions do no appear in my manual.
    Program mode is the default setting and the one I have been using.

    However, I just noticed the asterisk does appear on the screen when I turn
    the command dial (it didn't appear before my original post) but I still
    can't change the aperture/speed setting by rotating the dial. I've also been
    getting overly-saturated colors, especially with trees and grass, so I'm
    beginning to wonder if I didn't receive a lemon!
     
    Ken_B, Apr 9, 2005
    #3
  4. Ken_B

    Ed Ruf Guest

    See p.41. If you want a specific aperture select A-mode, shutter speed
    select S-mode. Both, then go to manual.

    Re: saturation, what mode are you shooting in? If you choose one of the
    scene mode there are many in camera adjustments made to the image.
     
    Ed Ruf, Apr 9, 2005
    #4
  5. Ken_B

    Ken_B Guest

    What I missed in the manual was that I have to be in Custom mode 1 or 2 to
    use Flexible Program. I was thinking it was supposed to operate in Auto
    mode, also.

    I also found that the colors are more natural in Custom mode. In Auto they
    are over-saturated, especially grass and trees. Too bad I can't tweak things
    like saturation and white balance in Auto mode.

    Thanks for the help.

    Ken
     
    Ken_B, Apr 9, 2005
    #5
  6. Ken_B

    Ed Ruf Guest

    Sorry about not pointing that I. I never use the auto mode in any of my
    cameras. I prefer having control of what processing is done to the image
    (none) vs. having the camera make the choices. This does mean I post
    process everything.
    In auto mode the image saturation, contrast and sharpening are all changed
    based upon the content of the image. So the effect can vary image to image.
    you are better off, imo, to shoot P-mode and set sat, contrast and
    sharpening yourself. P-mode is the same exposure program as auto, but it
    allows you to take control of in camera processing..
     
    Ed Ruf, Apr 9, 2005
    #6
  7. Ed Ruf wrote:
    []
    []

    You don't know what you've missed, Ed. You can actually concentrate on
    the composition and content of the image! <G>

    David
     
    David J Taylor, Apr 9, 2005
    #7
  8. Ken_B

    Ed Ruf Guest

    David I see the <G>, but don't understand. My 5700 and 990 are set in C.1
    with Image Adjustment and Saturation to normal instead of the default auto
    and sharpening off. Then in P-mode shooting is exactly the same as Auto
    mode. No difference.
     
    Ed Ruf, Apr 9, 2005
    #8
  9. I do something similar with my 5700 as well. I think it was perhaps more
    the idea of having to post-process every image. I think you will agree
    that there are folk out there who spend more time worrying about the
    technicalities rather than the content of the photo, though.

    Cheers,
    David
     
    David J Taylor, Apr 9, 2005
    #9
  10. Ken_B

    Ken_B Guest

    I've found I can get better results in C1 with saturation set to -3. Seems I
    shouldn't have to do that, though. I'm thinking of shipping it back for an
    exchange.
     
    Ken_B, Apr 10, 2005
    #10
  11. Ken_B

    Ed Ruf Guest

    No offense, but to us this is a completely arbitrary and subjective
    statement, given the fact you haven't told us by what basis you came to
    this conclusion and have shown no examples. Is this based on display on a
    calibrated monitor or printing using proper profiles to a color managed
    printer?

    Typo? You will note on p.87 of the user manual that the lowest setting is
    -2 and this is recommended for use where images will be processed on a
    computer. The 8700 uses the same sensor as my old 5700 and this was a fact
    back then as well. For maximum detail you want to set it lower and then
    boost in software later. Be sure to set Image Adj to NORAMAL instead of
    AUTO and Turn off all sharpening in the camera., IMO. Sharpening is best
    applied as the last post processing step.

    Raw would really be the best to shoot in, but IIRC Nikon didn't fix the
    firmware to write raw in a reasonable amount of time. I believe the 8700
    like the 5700 takes ~20 sec.
     
    Ed Ruf, Apr 10, 2005
    #11
  12. Ken_B

    Ken_B Guest

    I did make a typo....it -2, not -3. My issue isn't with detail, that's
    great. By the way, I'm not a professional photographer or camera expert. I
    just wanted a higher resolution point-and-shoot camera.

    Experimenting with Paint Shop Pro, I've found Automatic Color Balance with
    the pointer set to "Sunlight" makes the colors more normal-looking in
    daylight shots (both sunny and cloudy). So maybe my problem is with white
    balance rather than saturation?

    Some examples here: http://www.cox-internet.com/kenb2002/8700/
     
    Ken_B, Apr 10, 2005
    #12
  13. Ken_B

    Ed Ruf Guest

    Ok, this helps a bit, but is only a relative comparison. To put this in
    absolute terms we need to know what you are comparing this on. Just some
    monitor? A monitor running the Adobe Gamma util? A monitor running another
    visual based calibration based util, such as the free version of Praxisoft
    Wyziwig (http://www.praxisoft.com/pages/products.wiziwyg.html) or a
    hardware/software combo calibrated monitor using Colorvision's or Getrag's
    stuff? If you are not using a calibrated monitor to base your decisions on,
    all you're doing is making a judgement based upon your specific system, not
    anything in absolute terms. Move the image to another system and you may
    come to a different conclusion. I used Wiziwig with decent results before
    moving to a Colorvision Spyder and consumer grade software.

    Next, please let us know the other settings. They can effect the apparent
    saturation of an image. What exposure mode, image adjustment, wb settings?

    All the above matter. Please include all, otherwise we are just going
    around and around.
     
    Ed Ruf, Apr 10, 2005
    #13
  14. Ken_B

    Ken_B Guest

    Well, first comparison...my eyes! And three different monitors, two LCD and
    one tube type, plus a color print.

    After snapping the picture, you get a brief replay of the shot on the
    camera's monitor, then it goes back to the live image. The difference in
    saturation is very obvious then.

    This is about the sixth digital camera I have owned, edited hundreds of
    shots on this same 18-inch Dell UltraSharp, and never had any similar
    problem.

    While I'm at it, let me ask if anyone can explain how to get OUT of movie
    mode once you've gotten in. The book does not explain that...at least I
    couldn't find it (poorly written, in my opinion). I had to use the Reset
    option to get back to normal.
     
    Ken_B, Apr 11, 2005
    #14
  15. Ken_B

    Ed Ruf Guest

    The lcd on any camera isn't calibrated by any standard.
    Again, this is just a relative observation, unless the monitor has been
    calibrated. You can like it and as long as all you care about is how it
    looks on this specific monitor, then it is fine. I can tell you the same
    image you like on you monitor is washed out on my calibrated monitor. Do
    you get prints that faithfully reproduce what you see on the monitor?
    That's what counts.

    I'm sorry if you don't like my consistent bringing this up, but nothing you
    are comparing against provides an absolute reference.
    Sure, it's simple go to the Continuous menu and select single. See p.80 of
    th manual.
     
    Ed Ruf, Apr 11, 2005
    #15
  16. Ken_B

    Ken_B Guest

    I give up. No help here.


     
    Ken_B, Apr 11, 2005
    #16
  17. Ken_B

    Ed Ruf Guest

    At this point I have no idea what you expect.

    First, On Sun, 10 Apr 2005 10:02:58 -0500, in rec.photo.digital
    The On Sun, 10 Apr 2005 12:03:09 -0400, in rec.photo.digital Ed Ruf
    If you not going to say what wb, image adjust settings the shot was
    taken with how can one even answer your question? It's not as if you
    left the exif info in the images you posted.

    ________________________________________________________
    Ed Ruf Lifetime AMA# 344007 ()
    See images taken with my CP-990/5700 & D70 at
    http://EdwardGRuf.com
     
    Ed Ruf, Apr 11, 2005
    #17
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