Nikon D700x expected announcement date Dec 20

Discussion in 'Nikon' started by Tony the insider, Nov 15, 2008.

  1. Tony the insider

    P&S_Fan Guest

    Oh? Are you claiming that DSLR lenses are flawed? Say it can't be so.


    (I'm not objecting, I'm sarcastically claiming that you are 100% correct.)
    P&S_Fan, Nov 17, 2008
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  2. Tony the insider

    Guest Guest

    sometimes thoth adds a space when wrapping and i guess it handles
    spaces if a url wraps. that must have been one of those times.
    it hasn't.
    Guest, Nov 17, 2008
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  3. Tony the insider

    Paul Furman Guest

    Thunderbird broke on the first, worked on the second. With the old
    Mozilla I had to use the angle brackets but not t-bird when sending.
    Wrapped links actually working would be nice :)

    Paul Furman

    all google groups messages filtered due to spam
    Paul Furman, Nov 17, 2008
  4. Tony the insider

    SMS Guest

    Canon sold far, far, more cameras than Nikon last year. However in
    D-SLRs, Canon sold more than Nikon in 2007 but not far more. Canon was
    at 42%, Nikon was at 40%.

    For 2008, it's likely that Nikon sold more D-SLRs than Canon, thanks to
    the D40, though Canon will still lead in $ value of D-SLRs sold. Of
    course Canon still sold far more cameras than Nikon when you include P&S

    Nikon wasn't even in the top 3 in terms of total units sold in 2007.
    SMS, Nov 17, 2008
  5. Tony the insider

    Guest Guest

    so your own numbers show that isn't struggling like you said they were.
    Guest, Nov 17, 2008
  6. Alan Browne wrote:
    Doesn't it depend what type of photography they are doing? The studio
    may demand 25MP, but for long distance work, it would not surprise me if
    many professional photographers were quite happy with the extra
    magnification afforded by smaller than 36x24 sensors, and their
    potentially faster speed.

    David J Taylor, Nov 17, 2008
  7. Tony the insider

    Me Here Guest

    No, but in consumer electronics buyers are merely sheep led around by the
    marketing weasels, Cars normally run a 12 month cycle, not withstanding the
    2008 1/2 models.

    Get with the program!!!

    Resistance is futile.
    Me Here, Nov 17, 2008
  8. Tony the insider

    SMS Guest

    Cars are a much more mature product. More importantly, if you buy a
    Toyota one year, and buy a Honda 5 years later, you don't have to throw
    away a bunch of stuff that works only on the Toyota. I.e., I've used my
    Thule racks on a succession of vehicles from VW, Honda, and Toyota (2),
    with only minor outlays for some vehicle specific roof mounting. I can't
    use my Canon lenses on a Nikon D-SLR (the opposite is possible but not

    In reality, in this case, it's the electronics's buyers that are leading
    the consumer electronics companies around. If you buy a Nikon camera and
    several lenses, and a flash, you're pretty much committed to Nikon for a
    very very long time, which is how Nikon wants it. Ditto for Canon. So
    it's vitally important to these companies that their products don't lack
    some key feature that the competition has, because of the long-term
    implications. Nikon _must_ quickly upgrade the D700 to avoid the long
    term loss of customers to Canon, because of Canon's introduction of the
    5D Mark II. Conversely, Canon's at a disadvantage with their XSi versue
    the D90, since the D90 does video and the XSi does not, and in a segment
    that is geared toward those upgrading from a video-capable P&S, the D90
    has a compelling advantage to those that don't like hauling both a D-SLR
    and a camcorder around. Ditto for the D300 versus the 50D. Nikon will
    almost certainly introduce a D300 replacement with greater resolution,
    and may add video to leapfrog the 50D. The cost won't go up, but the
    features will.

    The most minor feature can tip a buying decision. I remember seeing a
    story about Honda on TV. Many years ago, when the Accord/Camry battle
    first started, Honda introduced cup holders in the Accord, and the Camry
    didn't yet have them. There were customers that felt the two vehicles
    were equal in quality and price, and were basing their final selection
    of the Accord over the Camry on the presence of cup holders.
    SMS, Nov 17, 2008
  9. Tony the insider

    John Sheehy Guest

    Even with your explanation of sarcasm; I have no idea what you're saying.
    My reference to the image circle is about vignetting which would occur with
    35mm format lenses with a bigger sensor.
    John Sheehy, Nov 18, 2008
  10. Tony the insider

    Arthur M.

    Nov 17, 2008
    Likes Received:
    Isn't it the same sensor that blasted during Sony reivews? If I remember correctly it was the worst part of A-900.

    At such high MP over the size, you'd also need premium lenses, even at 15MP on my 50D the recommendation is upper mid range or L class in canon since glass imperfections willl show up. Never mind the 24 mp over full sensor (which is slightly higher [i think] density than 15 mp in canon)
    Arthur M., Nov 18, 2008
  11. Tony the insider

    Me Guest

    But if that argument is valid, then why would Nikon's market share have
    increased dramatically at the expense of Canon's market share over the
    past few years?
    If DxO's "sensor performance" page had accurately presented data, then
    Canon's sensor development now seriously lags behind the competition -
    even from Samsung.
    Me, Nov 18, 2008
  12. Tony the insider

    Me Guest

    IIRC Oly's sensor underperforms on a "per area" basis. So there's
    potential for 4/3 to improve, if they could get better sensors.
    Not just speed, but in-camera AF system for motion-tracking etc.
    Then again, if you need the latest ring-motor equipped lenses to get the
    best AF performance (speed), and those cost as much as the ring-motor
    _and_ IS equipped lenses from C&N, then the argument for getting IS with
    legacy glass can be seen as a compromise. Anyway, as far as legacy
    glass goes, there are bugger all second hand quality KM lenses for sale
    here - outnumbered by C&N glass probably 10:1.
    Me, Nov 18, 2008
  13. Tony the insider

    Me Guest

    Nope - 3 years ago Canon had over 50% market share, Nikon about 30%.
    Both are around 40% now. But most sales are at the entry-level end. At
    the higher end - who knows exactly? Suffice to say that the D3 has
    eaten in to some of Canon's core pro dslr business.
    The delay in Nikon releasing the "X" 24mp version of the D3/700 is
    interesting. The firmware update for the D3 which definitely had coding
    in it for the "x" version was released about 6 months ago. Nikon have
    held back for some reason - marketing or technical. "The D700x" if it
    arrives in a month or so will be interesting. Nikon and Sony sensors in
    the a700 and D300 aren't identical, the D90 sensor is different again.
    Me, Nov 19, 2008
  14. Tony the insider

    Chris H Guest

    2% is bugger all difference when both are at the 40% mark. Also it means
    that al the rest put together only have 8% of the market.
    That is the market we were discussing?
    And the D300, D700 and D3
    Over priced? :)
    So Cannon lead in DSLR's by a long way
    Cannon sell more P&S by a long way.
    Total units shipped Nikon is not in top three (though the third
    company has less than 8% of the market to Nikons 40%)

    Yet Nikon is only 2% Cannon.... your numbers don't add up.

    I note that Digital Photo and Practical Photography voted Nikon Best
    across the board fro 2008

    Best Pro DSLR D3
    Best Advanced DSLR D300
    Product of the Year D3
    Chris H, Nov 19, 2008
  15. Tony the insider

    SMS Guest

    Your arithmetic skills need some help.

    Actually for 2007 D-SLR sales it was:

    Canon 43%
    Nikon 40%
    Sony 6%
    Olympus 6%
    Others 5%
    No, someone wrote "nikon sold more cameras than canon did last year".
    It's not true of course, Canon sold far more total cameras than Nikon
    did last year, and slightly more D-SLRs, though Canon lost a lot of
    market share in D-SLRs to Nikon, who introduced a slew of new models
    into the market, competing in segments of the D-SLR market for the first
    Canon doesn't have a mass-market entry at the extreme low end like the
    D40. That's where the big volumes are.
    No, not possible. Certainly.

    Canon 18.8%
    Sony 16.0%
    Kodak 9.6%
    Samsung 9.0%
    Nikon 8.4%
    Olympus 8.3%

    No such company as Cannon, but Canon did outsell Nikon slightly in 2007
    in D-SLRs. For 2008, when the data comes out, Nikon will likely have a
    slight advantage.
    Again, no such company as Canon, but yes, Canon outsells every other
    manufacturer by quite a wide margin.
    Canon outsells every manufacturer in total units. In D-SLR units, Canon
    was slightly ahead on Nikon in 2007, but when the numbers come in for
    2008, Nikon will likely lead Canon slightly.
    I guess Nikon placed more ads than Canon. To claim that the D3 is a
    better pro camera than the 1Ds Mark II is ludicrous.
    SMS, Nov 19, 2008
  16. Tony the insider

    Chris H Guest

    Strangely DXO also place the D3 above the 1D
    They are very good at testing optics.

    Never mind you are the only one who is right.
    Chris H, Nov 19, 2008
  17. Tony the insider

    Steve Guest

    That depends on what the pro is shooting. For fast action or low
    light, the D3 is a much better camera than the 1Ds. For studio
    photography, maybe/maybe not. A good pro will use the right tool for
    the job, which could be either depending on the job.

    But for general purpose all around shooting if you could only have one
    camera and had to make a choice between the D3 and 1DsMkII, those
    magazines got it right. As we all know, megapixels isn't everything
    and 16.7 MP isn't all that much more than 12.1 MP when it comes to
    real world photography. Even compared to a 1DsMkIII, I'd take the D3
    if I could only have one.

    Steve, Nov 19, 2008
  18. Tony the insider

    Guest Guest

    that was me who said that, and perhaps i was a little off in my timing
    as it was 2008 when nikon moved ahead.


    then you go on to say:
    the discussion was about dslrs, not all digital cameras, and you even
    agree with it. it was spawned by your statement that nikon is *forced*
    to update the d700 and d300 because they're struggling and losing
    market share to canon, yet you now say that nikon sold more dslrs than
    canon did.
    so the 1ds can do 10 frames per second? how about high iso?
    Guest, Nov 19, 2008
  19. Tony the insider

    Eric Stevens Guest

    You should consider using dry glass plates. I find they are much more
    convenient than the wet collodion process I have been using up till

    Eric Stevens
    Eric Stevens, Nov 19, 2008
  20. Tony the insider

    Eric Stevens Guest

    LOL :)

    Eric Stevens
    Eric Stevens, Nov 19, 2008
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