Nikon D80/200 - Canon 30d

Discussion in 'Nikon' started by frederick, May 28, 2007.

  1. frederick

    frederick Guest

    Not arguing the relative merits of these cameras.
    Canon 30d is now about US$200 less than a D80 in my local store, or as a
    kit with a 17-85 IS lens it's about the same price as a D80 with a
    plastic mount cheap 18-135 lens, and about US$200 less than a D200 body
    only.
    Damn it - I'd like a D200 body - but there ain't no way I'd be happy
    buying one now at about double the price of a 30d.
     
    frederick, May 28, 2007
    #1
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  2. frederick

    Guest Guest

    a canon 30d for $700??? what store is that?
     
    Guest, May 28, 2007
    #2
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  3. frederick

    frederick Guest

    Sorry - I should have mentioned that these are NZ prices.
    You've extrapolated US$700 from an assumption that the D80 is US$900.
    NZ price for D80 is NZ$1750 = US$1150
    NZ price for 30D body is NZ$1490
    NZ price for D200 body is NZ$2750 - almost double the 30d price.

    Don't know what current prices are where you live. IMO there's no way a
    D80 should cost as much as a 30d - let alone cost more
     
    frederick, May 28, 2007
    #3
  4. frederick

    RichA Guest

    Only difference being the D200 body is a pro body (for all intents and
    purposes) while the 30D is a consumer body, even though it's metal.
    You never know how important weather and dust sealing is until you
    don't have it anymore.
    The D80 is a nice plastic body and it has held it's price due to it
    being perceived as the best 10 megapixel camera of the current line up.
     
    RichA, May 28, 2007
    #4
  5. frederick

    M-M Guest


    First the 18-135 is not a cheap lens. It is a bit slow at 4.5-5.6 but
    optically excellent, it has an internal very fast AF with manual
    override.

    If you need a D200, the price will not be an issue. The viewfinder is
    very bright and continuous shooting very fast. Auto ISO is another
    useful feature.

    In the end, you will get what you pay for, but why spend the money if
    you don't want or have no need for the features.
     
    M-M, May 29, 2007
    #5
  6. frederick

    frederick Guest

    And what about the D200 body makes it (in your opinion) more "pro" than
    the 30d?
     
    frederick, May 29, 2007
    #6
  7. frederick

    frederick Guest

    It is cheap - just not as nasty as the 18-55 as at least the front
    element doesn't rotate. It's quite fast - but not very fast - it
    doesn't focus as fast as the 18-70, it's slower aperture, and it has a
    plastic mount - I've used both and compared them thoroughly. I'm not
    saying that it's bad - just cheap. The 30d kit with 17-85 IS at _lower_
    price than for a D80 / 18-135 is a hell of a bargain for a hell of a lot
    more camera.
    Continuous shooting for the 30d is the same as for the D200. The D200
    viewfinder is the same as the D80 viewfinder - minus some display features.
    Because you don't get what you pay for. The 30d Canon is a better
    camera than the D80 - and is currently less expensive. BTW I'm not a
    Canon shill - I prefer Nikon.
     
    frederick, May 29, 2007
    #7
  8. frederick

    RichA Guest

    Everything?
     
    RichA, May 29, 2007
    #8
  9. frederick

    C J Campbell Guest

    The 30D is a very nice camera, but it is not comparable to a D200. The
    D200 has two more megapixels, better menu system, AF assist lamp, more
    user control over ISO, user memories, four manual white balance
    memories, text commenting, GPS support, USB 2.0 at 5 MB/sec (instead of
    the 30D's 3.6 MB/sec), very detailed battery status, multiple
    exposures, interval shooting, slightly larger sensor, 11 area
    autofocus, ±5.0 exposure value for bracketing, more EV stops, rubber
    sealed magnesium body, faster continuous speed shutter, programmable
    button. The 30D does have more auto presets, which you would expect of
    a consumer camera, and it is smaller and lighter. It also comes with
    better software. It performs better at high ISO and uses a rear dial
    instead of a multi-selector.

    I go to places (heck, I live in places) which are hard on cameras and
    equipment, so for me it is no contest -- I use the D200. I take
    pictures in rain, tropical heat, high wind, high altitude, salt spray,
    blowing sand, and arctic cold. I think nothing of hanging out an open
    airplane window and taking pictures. I might leave the camera out in
    the weather all night. So the better weather seals mean a lot to me. So
    does the better bracketing; I can't always look at the LCD to check
    exposure. I will use the D3x if and when it is ever released. I need a
    camera that is built like a tank or, really, one that can stand to have
    a tank run over it.
     
    C J Campbell, May 29, 2007
    #9
  10. frederick

    frederick Guest

    Bugger you - you're probably right - but bugger you, it ain't worth
    twice as much as a 30d. And double-bugger the price of accessories like
    the vertical grip and remote.
     
    frederick, May 29, 2007
    #10
  11. frederick

    RichA Guest

    But Nikon has always cost more on average than the others. The only
    camera in the class that cost more than D80 was the fully-outfitted
    Pentax K10D.
    Be happy Canon has seen fit to include a metal body with a camera at
    the 30Ds price point.
     
    RichA, May 29, 2007
    #11
  12. frederick

    RichA Guest

    But Nikon has always cost more on average than the others. The only
    camera in the class that cost more than D80 was the fully-outfitted
    Pentax K10D.
    Be happy Canon has seen fit to include a metal body with a camera at
    the 30Ds price point.
     
    RichA, May 29, 2007
    #12
  13. frederick

    RichA Guest

    But Nikon has always cost more on average than the others. The only
    camera in the class that cost more than D80 was the fully-outfitted
    Pentax K10D.
    Be happy Canon has seen fit to include a metal body with a camera at
    the 30Ds price point.
     
    RichA, May 29, 2007
    #13
  14. frederick

    newsmb Guest

    Well, here in Canada the D200 is selling for $Cdn1650 and the 30D is
    selling for $Cdn1400 and the D80 is selling for $1100Cdn at the
    leading photo retail chain. Which is about where they should be
    slotted pricewise.
     
    newsmb, May 30, 2007
    #14
  15. frederick

    frederick Guest

    I reckon that's right. Something's out of whack with the current low
    30d prices here. I wonder if they're clearing stock for a new model -
    starting in more obscure markets like New Zealand. I could buy a 30d
    here - and sell it in Canada for profit. Never seen that before.
     
    frederick, May 30, 2007
    #15
  16. frederick

    John Sheehy Guest

    What exactly do you mean by that? "More user control over ISO" sounds like
    more ISO choices in manual ISO. The 30D has
    100/125/160/200/250/320/.../1250/1600/3200 (the multiples of 125 are not
    very useful, though).

    .... or did you mean "more auto-ISO flexibility?".

    --
     
    John Sheehy, May 30, 2007
    #16
  17. frederick

    newsmb Guest

    The high ISO performance thing is a myth perpetuated by those clowns
    at dpreview. Because the D200 is aimed at the serious photographer,
    Nikon's philosophy is to avoid overdoing the in-camera processing. If
    you run the D200 image (especially the RAW file) through Noise Ninja
    or NeatImage you can get results at least as good as what the 30D
    produces.

    That said, there isn't much difference between the cameras, other than
    the Nikon being more solidly-built and having a more advanced metering
    system. Plus, the D200 is backwards-compatible with just about every
    Nikon F mount lens built in the last 30 years.
     
    newsmb, May 31, 2007
    #17
  18. "There's simply not that much difference between eight and
    ten megapixels.", to quote dpreview, and "You really wouldn't
    be able to see a difference in print even at very large
    sizes."

    => Completely irrelevant, except for marketing.
    Better in what way?
    Inbuild "Help" for beginners?
    Practically every external flash unit has one, so?
    Say again?
    Or do you mean that Canon (except in the 400D) does mislable
    the ISO value a bit, like ISO 100 being actually ISO 125, and
    ISO 3200 being actually ISO 4000? (And happening to have much
    better noise characteristics at their understated "ISO 3200"
    than Nikon's 'real' ISO 3200.)

    Or are you referring to Auto-ISO?
    Agreed, that's nice and useful.
    "Disappointing automatic white balance performance under artificial
    light" (dpreview.com) => you _need_ them.

    And can you tune the WB on the Green-Magenta and Blue-Amber axis
    and do bracketing there?
    How many words per minute?
    How much for the additionally needed GPS?
    And what additional use is that over a GPS with memory system
    you can later combine based on the camera clock?
    Except for the cable going for your camera you need to cope with,
    that is.
    About any card reader is faster than that and dirt cheap, too,
    so that's a complete non-issue.
    How about better battery life? That'd be much more important ...
    Trick shooting is much better done in Photoshop or any other
    picture editor. Has the D200 also an Black-White mode with
    (digital) colourfilters and sepia and other tonings, like the
    20D already has?
    For the price difference you easily get a bucketfull of remote
    releases (which you'll want anyway) that give you all the interval
    shooting you want.
    Means diddly squat.
    Oh, the 30D has 9+6, that is 15 AF areas, just to show that the
    number is quite meaningless.
    When did you last _need_ -5 .. 0 .. +5 bracketing, and were
    unable to use manual? The only idea I have is HDR and similar,
    and there you really want a tripod and with a tripod you have
    the time to use manual mode.
    According to dpreview.com, with JPEGs:
    At ISO 100:
    shadow highlight usable
    range range range
    D200: 5 EV 3.2 EV 8.2 stops
    20D: 5.1EV 3.4 EV 8.4[sic] stops
    (I see 8.5 stops ...)

    The D200 drops to 7.2 stops at ISO 800, 6.9 at ISO 1600, and just
    6.2 stops at ISO 3200.

    Say again?
    Which is worth a wet heap of garbage without a sealed lens and,
    if used, flash unit.

    Anyway, the 30D has a magnesium body, too.
    Eh? The 30D does 5fps, just as the 20D, and the D200.
    The set button is programmable, yes.

    Don't forget the vertical banding issue.
    And that a real rear dial is much easier to use than a
    multi-selector.
    And that the JPEGs out of the camera are compressed to a given
    file size, instead of a given quality --- what do I want with a
    'very detailed' completely blue sky, and why is that shot with
    lots of details (e.g. hair, many twigs, etc) so murky?

    Oh, "insufficient number of image parameter adjustments with
    little latitude" (dpreview.com) --- probably that's why 5 EV
    bracketing is needed as a counterweight.

    Like the A-DEP (automatic Depth of Field) setting.
    Oy, you are just nervous that one might see the advantage to give
    the camera to a non-photographer friend ... with sensible presets.
    Even the 5D is lighter than the D200.
    And here I thought it _might_ have something to do with the lenses
    you already have and use.
    You are really so, ah, unsure about exposure and the camera
    metering that you need more than -2,0,+2 EV? Hey, I thought,
    if you're overexposed by the automatic or your manual setting,
    you should not be overexposing by 2 full stops. And that if
    you used -4,0,+4, you's be severely underexposing at -4 if you
    overexposed "just a bit" at 0 ...
    Well, if you ever get one, do not let a car drive over it.
    Tanks happen to have rather low ground pressure, due to the large
    caterpillar tracks spreading the weight: a heavyweight (70 ton)
    M1 Abrahams tank has about half the ground pressure than your
    ca. 1 ton run-of-the-mill car, according to wikipedia.

    -Wolfgang
     
    Wolfgang Weisselberg, May 31, 2007
    #18
  19. Aren't you missing something?
    Like the fact that you can run the 30D images (especially the
    RAW file) through Noise Ninja or NeatImage as well?

    And that after applying NN or NI for *both* cameras, the difference
    between the D200 and the 30D has not shrunk? If anything, it
    has increased ...
    Except all the exceptions.
    While the 30D is compatible with *all* EF lenses ...

    -Wolfgang
     
    Wolfgang Weisselberg, May 31, 2007
    #19
  20. frederick

    ASAAR Guest

    Can a car pause while pinning the camera between wheel and
    pavement and then pivot around the camera, grinding it into a fine
    powder, as the M1 can? If you try this experiment at home, try to
    protect the lens with a UV filter. :)
     
    ASAAR, Jun 1, 2007
    #20
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