Nikon D80/200 - Canon 30d

Discussion in 'Nikon' started by frederick, May 28, 2007.

  1. frederick

    C J Campbell Guest

    Only if you want everything in the picture to have no detail and look
    like it was made of Barbie Doll plastic. Unfortunately, that is what
    some people seem to think is a good photo today. This is the garbage
    you see posted on the stock photo sites nowadays -- a complete lack of
    texture of any kind.
    C J Campbell, Jun 28, 2007
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  2. I didn't say "use NN and set the power to 'faaar to high'" ...

    If that is all you can manage, you should stay away from soch

    Wolfgang Weisselberg, Jun 28, 2007
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  3. They did make a clean cut. Cuts do hurt, yes.
    And which of them work as well on a D40?
    Do I love complicate dependencies?

    Wolfgang Weisselberg, Jun 28, 2007
  4. frederick

    ASAAR Guest

    Typical. You really do appear to enjoy playing the troll.
    ASAAR, Jun 28, 2007
  5. I'm using Nikon lenses that I've owned since before there *was*
    They all work well enough. I'm entirely comfortable with manual focus
    lenses, or I wouldn't still be using these lenses. I've used cameras
    without a builtin meter as my primary camera, and still have one (4x5)
    that can get hauled out for special occasions.
    David Dyer-Bennet, Jun 28, 2007
  6. Do you have anything valuable to add, like why the D200 with
    NN is ok, but the D30 with NN isn't? Or are you a troll?

    Wolfgang Weisselberg, Jun 30, 2007
  7. frederick

    ASAAR Guest

    I already made a valid point. Adding anything to the D200/D30/NN
    debate isn't likely to add much of value, at least in this thread.
    Coming back with "Or are you a troll" just confirms my point. There
    are many types of trolls. Some are rather innocuous. Others, such
    as you, seem to thrive if they find ways to vent their hostility or
    post uncalled for, condescending replies. You do that very well.
    ASAAR, Jun 30, 2007
  8. Learn the subtle art of stroking and Wolfy will be eating out of your hand.

    Rita Ä Berkowitz, Jun 30, 2007
  9. They work as well on the D40/D40x as they did on the original Nikon F
    in 1959 - and that is what counts. One of the good things about the
    D40/D40x is that I they work fine with unconverted pre-AI Nikkors.
    Not even the D200 can do that.

    Yes, you have to keep track of some exceptions to use old Nikon glass
    Not a big deal if you're interested in old glass. If you're not, you
    do as the Canonites do, and buy expensive current glass only.

    Except that Canon has introduced yet another twist on the path towards
    built-in obselence, the EF-S mount. The EF-S mount precludes use of
    some very current Canon lenses on some digital bodies such as the D30,
    D60 and 10D.
    Gisle Hannemyr, Jul 1, 2007
  10. frederick

    Paul Furman Guest

    I've heard some pre-AI lenses will mount on newer Nikon bodies, I'm
    assuming they won't meter on a D40, but is the mount actually different
    enough that the D40 will mount more options than a D200? I doubt that.
    Paul Furman, Jul 1, 2007
  11. frederick

    DoN. Nichols Guest

    The mount of the lens, or of the body?

    The main difference for *some* pre AI lenses is that the
    aperture ring does not act as a skirt around the body's mount plate.
    For those, there is nothing to hit the "Fully stopped down" sensor that
    the D70 (and presumably the D40) use, or the "How far stopped down below
    maximum" sensor on the D200. (Or do the D40 and D40X actually not have
    that sensor? I've never had my hands on one of those.)

    An example of a couple of pre AI lens which has no "skirt" on
    the aperture ring is the Medical Nikkor 200mm f:4, and the 500mm f:8
    mirror lens. (The latter has no skirt because it has no aperture ring
    at all.)

    Most of the older Nikkor lenses had a skirt on the aperture
    ring, to help keep dirt out of the body/lens interface. When the
    Photomic metering pentaprism was added, a half-moon clip was screwed to
    the aperture ring, to couple information into the Photomic head's
    metering mechanism.

    Then, Nikon started moving the metering system into the camera
    body. This called for a system a bit less bulky than the half-moon
    clip, so they started removing part of the skirt, letting the remaining
    parts couple the information about the selected aperture into the body.
    One of the early cameras (I forget which) had a fold-down hinge built
    into the sensor link on the body, so it could clear the full skirt on
    the older lenses (moving you to manual metering with those lenses which
    you did not have modified with an AI skirt.)

    As for DSLR bodies -- the D200's difference is the presence of
    the "How many stops below maximum" sensor instead of the "Stopped down
    to minimum" which the D70 has. This allows it to have enough
    information to actually meter through the AI (and non-CPU) lenses..

    Of course, the DX lenses have all of this information coupled in
    via the CPU, so some camera bodies have none of the sensors. (The D40
    and D40X *may* be among these, in which case you could again mount any
    old lens on the body -- except for those which had sufficient
    projection into the body cavity to damage the mirror, such as the 8mm
    fisheye lens. The old Nikon F bodies had a control which would lock the
    mirror up (after wasting an exposure) to allow using these extreme rear
    projection lenses in that body). Another benefit from this is
    minimizing the vibration introduced by the mirror mechanism.

    DoN. Nichols, Jul 2, 2007
  12. Who is eating out of whom's hand is left to be seen. :)

    (Beware! When feeding lions, your hand may be part of the food.)

    Wolfgang Weisselberg, Jul 2, 2007
  13. Not in a post where your whole original text is "Typical.
    You really do appear to enjoy playing the troll."

    Unless showing yourself out of arguments and trollish is a
    point you wanted to make.

    You are right.
    As long as some people find it fine to combat noise on the D200,
    but doing the same on the 30D is evil, bad, and generating plastic
    looks, I may as well try to convince white suprematists that
    people of colour are as valuable as they are.

    Wolfgang Weisselberg, Jul 2, 2007
  14. frederick

    ASAAR Guest

    You can't be so stupid as to believe that one can't make a valid
    post that someone (*you*, in this case) is an annoying, insulting,
    troll-like poster without being forced to make an additional comment
    about the topic of the thread. I chose to not join you in your
    pointless, insult laden "Sound and Fury" style debate about the
    relative merits of two cameras, neither of which I own.

    Somehow, I get the impression that you're just the kind of
    argumentative guy that would waste your time doing just that. I
    also think that many 'people of colour' might take offense at you
    being the arbiter of their 'value'. Please post a head shot with
    your mouth open, we'd like to check your teeth.
    ASAAR, Jul 2, 2007
  15. Correct. Nor did they meter on a Nikon F (since it didn't have a
    built-in meter).
    The D200 (and almost any other Nikon body since the introduction of
    the Nikon EM i 1979) has a mechanical coupling called "AI" (Automatic
    Index) that is enganged by a matching coupling on the lens' aperture
    ring. So-called Pre-AI Nikkors (produced fro 1959 to 1979) lack
    this coupling. Instead, they have a raised collar that will
    physically damage the AI coupling on the D200 or any other Nikon body
    that have this coupling in place. Therefore unmodified pre-AI lenses
    can not be mounted on a D200 or a F6.

    In 1987, Nikon introduced bodies that used a microprocessor (CPU),
    rather than a mechanical coupling to rely this information from
    the lens to the camera. However, for backwards compatibility,
    both lenses and cameras retained the mechanical coupling.

    For the D40 and D40x, Nikon has removed the mechanical AI coupling
    from the camera. Since the camera is only supposed to be used AF-S
    lenses, which all has CPUs, the AI-coupling no longer serves a
    purpose. Its removal is probably just to save cost, but as a
    side-effect, you can mount pre-AI Nikkors on a D40 and D40x
    without damaging the AI coupling (since it isn't there).

    Of course, if you insist on retaining metering and AF, there is a lot
    more lenses that will work perfect on the D200, than on a D40/D40x.
    But if you can live with MF and are willing to use an external light
    meter, the D40/D40x will give you a larger selecton of lenses than any
    modern Nikon body (some older film bodies such as FE, FM, F3 and F4
    have a hinged AI coupling that can be flipped away to accomodate
    pre-AI lenses).
    Gisle Hannemyr, Jul 3, 2007
  16. Unmodified pre-AI lenses typically can easly be mounted
    on more recent model cameras.

    Because the camera mount is not specifically designed
    for those lenses it is *possible* that some lense
    could cause damage. Therefore with such a lense it is
    necessary to carefully determine if continued use
    mounted on a particular camera is likely to damage the
    camera. (Most likely not, but that *does* need to be

    I own several pre-AI lenses that I commonly mount on a
    D2x. Only one of them happens to be a bit too tight
    fitting, and does make me slightly nervous to use. The
    others don't even come close...
    I haven't tried a D40 or a D40x, but can't imagine using
    an external light meter with either of them. Assuming
    they do have both a histogram display and a blink on
    over exposure display on the LCD, using either is by far
    the most accurate light metering system available (even
    with AF-S lenses that have CPU's).
    Floyd L. Davidson, Jul 3, 2007
  17. #!/usr/bin/perl
    $original = "a valid point";
    $new_claim = "a valid post";
    print "It's a strawman\n" unless $original == $new_claim;

    Maybe I even would --- I believe in equal rights.
    Compared to the KKK and company, I don't feel I have much to fear.
    If you want your head shot, come over here while I get my gun.
    How you'd check my teeth afterwards is, however, unclear to me.

    Wolfgang Weisselberg, Jul 4, 2007
  18. frederick

    ASAAR Guest

    Hmm. Once again, with no serious rejoinder to make, all you're
    capable of is another moronic statement that falls flat even if you
    wanted it to appear as an example of sick, black humor. Those that
    *really* broadcast their murderous intents are most often either
    cowards or they're insane. Keep it up. You're getting more and
    more transparent as you go.
    ASAAR, Jul 5, 2007
  19. As you know, they don't meter on a D40. They didn't meter on my Fuji
    S2, either, and I found them very useful anyway.
    What's complicated about it, though?
    David Dyer-Bennet, Aug 20, 2007
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