Nikon SB-24 and D70s

Discussion in 'Nikon' started by Nikon User, Oct 30, 2005.

  1. Nikon User

    Nikon User Guest

    I have a Nikon SB-24 speedlight that I bought about fifteen years ago.

    It's supposedly capable of auto focusing and zooming by itself, and also
    using TTL metering with the camera.

    In what modes, if any, of the camera would this strobe be able to use
    TTL metering?
     
    Nikon User, Oct 30, 2005
    #1
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  2. Nikon User

    bmoag Guest

    My old SB 24 was not reliable with my D70, although working perfectly with
    Nikon film cameras, no matter what settings I used on the D70. The tendency
    was to significant overexposure which I could not reliably predict. However
    there is no problem in trying your SB 24 with your D70 and seeing how it
    works for you.
    I broke down and bought the SB 600 which works incredibly well with the D70.
     
    bmoag, Oct 31, 2005
    #2
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  3. Nikon User

    DoN. Nichols Guest

    The problem is that the SB-24 (and others of that vintage) were
    designed to accept information from light reflected off the film in the
    camera. Note that is *film* -- not *sensor*. The film evenly disperses
    the light, while the sensor is more of a specular reflection, so the
    principle does not work well in a DSLR, and as a result, is not
    implemented.

    The D70 (and other DSLRS by Nikon) use a dimmer pre-flash from the
    SB-600 or SB-800 to judge the exposure to be, and decide how much flash
    to produce. This has the disadvantage of giving a subject a millisecond
    or so of warning, thus making blinking a bit more of a problem if they
    are looking directly at the flash.
    That, or the SB-800 are the proper choice for the D70 and D70s.

    Enjoy,
    DoN.
     
    DoN. Nichols, Oct 31, 2005
    #3
  4. Nikon User

    DD (Rox) Guest

    It doesn't offer any TTL metering with any DSLR. TTL metering in those
    units required measuring reflectance off the film. If it has an AUTO
    mode you might be able to get decent exposures, but definitely not
    balanced ones.
     
    DD (Rox), Oct 31, 2005
    #4
  5. Nikon User

    george Guest

    I accidentally grabbed my SB-24 once (instead of my SB-800) and shot with
    it with good results...it was just annoying when I went to set it to
    repeating
    mode and noticed my error!!! I've only used it once (and it may have
    totally
    been luck) but what have you got to lose by trying it? You're not wasting
    film or processing costs.
     
    george, Oct 31, 2005
    #5
  6. Nikon User

    Nikon User Guest

    It doesn't offer any TTL metering with any DSLR. TTL metering in
    those units required measuring reflectance off the film.[/QUOTE]

    How is TTL metering done with DSLRs? I would have thought that however
    the camera does the metering, it could signal the strobe unit through
    the contacts in the hot shoe, which is how the film cameras do it with
    the SB-24.
    It has auto, manual, repeat, and TTL modes.
     
    Nikon User, Oct 31, 2005
    #6
  7. Nikon User

    Nikon User Guest

    Thanks. I just may give the SB-24 to my daughter, then, to go with the
    N8008s I already gave her.
     
    Nikon User, Oct 31, 2005
    #7
  8. Nikon User

    Nikon User Guest

    The problem is that the SB-24 (and others of that vintage) were
    designed to accept information from light reflected off the film in
    the camera. Note that is *film* -- not *sensor*. The film evenly
    disperses the light, while the sensor is more of a specular
    reflection, so the principle does not work well in a DSLR, and as a
    result, is not implemented.[/QUOTE]

    That answers my most recent question; I guess that I should have read
    all the replies before responding.
    Is that similar to the red-eye reduction preflash?
    Could you please summarize the differences between the two?

    Thanks.
     
    Nikon User, Oct 31, 2005
    #8
  9. Nikon User

    Nikon User Guest

    Well, I did try it, and got inconsistent (maybe even erratic) results;
    that's why I asked what I should expect from it.
     
    Nikon User, Oct 31, 2005
    #9
  10. Nikon User

    DoN. Nichols Guest

    [ ... ]
    Sometimes, it makes sense to post when the issue is fresh in
    your mind, before reading everything else. Sometimes, however, you
    discover that you wind up with the answers in another branch of
    the thread, as in this case.
    I suspect that the difference is that the red-eye reduction
    preflash occurs a somewhat longer time before the actual exposure (to
    give the eyes a chance to stop down), but yes, otherwise similar.
    Not really, as I only own the SB-800. I'll try from memory, but
    I will probably miss some things.

    1) The SB-800 has a bit more power in the flash, so it will reach
    out to a greater distance with proper exposure.

    2) The SB-800 comes with a diffuser which fits over the flash
    to provide a very wide angle and soft light. This also actuates
    a switch in the SB-800 to tell it to tell the camera about the
    wider dispersion of the light (and thus lower light at any given
    distance). (This is in addition to the pull-out fold-down wide
    angle lens, and the pull-out bounce flash card in the head.)

    From reports from others on this newsgroup, the diffuser does
    not fit the head of the SB-600.

    3) The SB-800 can work either as a slave or a master controlling
    flash, using other SB-800s or SB-600s as slave units. This
    allows more command channels than the one which is the fixed
    default in the D-70's "commander" mode, which can help avoid
    problems when two or more people are using "D70"s and slaved
    SB-800s or SB-600s.

    As far as I know -- the SB-600 is only a slave in this mode.
    (Of course, on the camera, there is little difference, but when
    wireless remoting, that is a different matter.)

    4) The SB-800 comes with a special battery compartment which can
    slide on in place of the normal battery door, to add a fifth
    AA sized NiMH cell in series with the four in the battery
    compartment. This offers faster recycle times, and a bit more
    battery life.

    I don't think that this is available for the SB-600, but I don't
    know.

    5) The SB-800 comes with a set of three mild color gels punched to
    fit over the flash with a tab on each to stick in below the
    pull-out wide angle and bounce card. These three are in a nylon
    case. Other colors are available.


    I'm not sure how many of these apply to the SB-600.

    I do hope to get an SB-600 or two eventually to use as slaves in
    more complex lighting setups in the field.

    If wireless remote flash and/or lots of rapid-fire high-power
    flashes are not what you need, the SB-600 is probably all that you need.

    Enjoy,
    DoN.
     
    DoN. Nichols, Oct 31, 2005
    #10
  11. Nikon User

    george Guest

    Now that is a bit different situation that your original post didn't
    mention.
    Were your results all over the place (over, under, and correct exposure)
    or all either correct or erred to the same side? What mode(s) was your
    camera and flash set to?
     
    george, Nov 1, 2005
    #11
  12. Nikon User

    Nikon User Guest

    Now that is a bit different situation that your original post didn't
    mention.
    Were your results all over the place (over, under, and correct exposure)
    or all either correct or erred to the same side? What mode(s) was your
    camera and flash set to?[/QUOTE]

    The erratic parts were that sometimes the flash would trigger, sometimes
    it wouldn't, and sometimes the camera wouldn't shoot. I forget the
    settings, but the variance happened without changing the settings or the
    subject.
     
    Nikon User, Nov 1, 2005
    #12
  13. Nikon User

    Nikon User Guest

    Not really, as I only own the SB-800. I'll try from memory, but
    I will probably miss some things.[/QUOTE]

    Well, after posing the question, I realized that I had a great tool with
    which to find the answer myself: Google. <g>

    Thanks for taking the time to respond. One thing I found out was that
    my D70s can be the master using its built-in flash, so I don't need an
    SB-800 to trigger slave strobes.

    According to one site, the LCD display on the 600 is much more legible
    than on the 800.

    As much as I'd like the diffuser, wide-angle lens, and the gels, I don't
    think the 800 is worth the extra cost to me.

    Oh, the 600 can't take that fifth battery.
     
    Nikon User, Nov 1, 2005
    #13
  14. I have read this before, but it makes little sense to me. That would
    require exposing the film before flashing ... which is contradictory.
     
    Thomas T. Veldhouse, Nov 1, 2005
    #14
  15. Hmm ... my SB-600 has a built in diffuser as well. It is documented as
    for use with wide-angle shots. I have not needed it up to this point.
     
    Thomas T. Veldhouse, Nov 1, 2005
    #15
  16. True, but sometimes you don't want a light coming directly from the
    camera at all. It might be more appropriate to have source light from
    the left or right of the camera. In this case, you need the 800 as a
    master if you want to use more than one strobe. I think many portrait
    scenarios will benefit by NOT using the built-in flash at all.
     
    Thomas T. Veldhouse, Nov 1, 2005
    #16
  17. No, it's the way TTL flash works on film cameras. Part of the light
    reflected from the film is used to signal the flash unit when there's been
    enough for proper exposure.

    Neil
     
    Neil Harrington, Nov 1, 2005
    #17
  18. So does mine, but Don's talking about another, separate diffuser which fits
    on the flash head. As he mentioned, "(This is in addition to the pull-out
    fold-down wide
    angle lens, and the pull-out bounce flash card in the head.)"

    Neil
     
    Neil Harrington, Nov 1, 2005
    #18
  19. Nikon User

    Wayne Guest

    No, the SB-24 TTL mode meters the light reflected from the film DURING the
    exposure, not before. There is some advantage of that, for example in a
    room full of photographers all using flash, it can see and reckon other
    flashes at the same time as the exposure.

    But with the D70, there is no film, so the most the SB-24 can offer then is
    its AA mode, instead of TTL mode. So I bought the SB-800 for it, which
    computes flash before the actual exposure. It's great too, except maybe in
    the rooms full of photographers with flashes. :)
     
    Wayne, Nov 1, 2005
    #19
  20. Nikon User

    DoN. Nichols Guest

    Well, after posing the question, I realized that I had a great tool with
    which to find the answer myself: Google. <g>

    Thanks for taking the time to respond. One thing I found out was that
    my D70s can be the master using its built-in flash, so I don't need an
    SB-800 to trigger slave strobes.[/QUOTE]

    Agreed. I mentioned, however, that the SB-800 can use alternate
    channels, while the D70 body is locked to a single channel.
    O.K. Since I have not seen the SB-600, I did not realize that.
    Of course, the SB-800 needs to cover more options, so the area available
    to a single option is reduced.
    O.K. You can always get blank gels and cut out ones to fit.
    Look for a slot at the top of the front lens which will accept a tab to
    hold the gel in place without having to tape it in position. (I don't
    know whether the SB-600 has such a slot -- but if so, you could buy
    pre-made gels from Nikon for it as well.
    O.K. That can be a problem under certain circumstances.
    Actually, probably the best bet under some conditions is to use an
    external AC-powered supply for it.

    Enjoy,
    DoN.
     
    DoN. Nichols, Nov 1, 2005
    #20
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