Nikon v Canon 500mm?

Discussion in 'Nikon' started by Richard, Jun 22, 2007.

  1. Richard

    Bill Funk Guest

    Obviously, you've never tried to capture a duck's wings in a certain
    position while the duck is taking off.
    Anticipation? Right.
    --
    THIS IS A SIG LINE; NOT TO BE TAKEN SERIOUSLY!

    Al Gore's son was pulled over by police on the
    San Diego Freeway Tuesday with marijuana, Valium,
    Xanax and Vicodin on him. The kid never had a
    chance. He got hooked on downers at an early
    age listening to his father read him bedtime
    stories.
     
    Bill Funk, Jul 14, 2007
    #21
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  2. What letter of "mostly" did escape you?
    And why not using a 100+ frames/second film camera instead of
    puny 10fps in these cases?

    -Wolfgang
     
    Wolfgang Weisselberg, Jul 14, 2007
    #22
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  3. LOL! This is by far the first intelligent thing you ever posted. This
    reminds me of the idiot we had in the group post a question about wearing
    out a shutter on a 1D because she shoots 10,000 shots per event (horse
    show).
    That would be correct way to do it since we were always taught to make each
    shot count when shooting film. The digital age introduced us to a new breed
    of idiot that thinks it's acceptable to go full auto and sweep the streets
    like a New York city cop emptying their Glock totally missing the target and
    killing innocent bystanders.
    With all the AF problems currently with the Mk III right now you need a deep
    buffer and an 80 GB HD to get a few "in-focus" keepers.






    Rita
     
    Rita Ä Berkowitz, Jul 14, 2007
    #23
  4. Spoken like the typical person who has never photographed
    real action. Scenes like this are too fast for normal
    people to react to:

    http://members.aol.com/bhilton665/tanzania_rainy_2006/lion_fight.htm

    Typical reaction times by people are 1/10 second, and add the
    shutter delay of fast DSLRs of .05 second and you are slower
    to react than the current top of the line action DSLR:
    the 1D Mark II (to be supplanted by the 1D III when they get
    the bugs worked out).

    Then someone will invariably say get a video camera, but video
    cameras are not 8+ megapixels.

    Roger
     
    Roger N. Clark (change username to rnclark), Jul 15, 2007
    #24
  5. Richard

    Rebecca Ore Guest

    This was interesting. I've also heard that a zoo introduced a lion that
    the pride of lionesses didn't like and one morning, the keepers found
    him dead.
     
    Rebecca Ore, Jul 15, 2007
    #25
  6. Richard

    ASAAR Guest

    That's exactly what I got a week ago with the D50. Anticipation?
    No. Dumb luck? Yep. <g> But the duck (whatever type it was)
    would have been long gone by that time had I been using one of my
    P&S cameras. People recognized this duck as being the only of its
    peers that has orange legs, but I don't know enough about waterfowl
    (practically nothing) to know if it has any significance. Someone
    referred to these duck with a certain name but I can't recall what
    it was. It may have started with the letter 'K'.

    When I was getting copies of some of my prints made yesterday, the
    woman collecting them as they rapidly exited the large photo machine
    in the back of the store called out to her co-worker that was
    waiting on me "I like this picture" while holding up one of the
    shots of the duck standing on the end of a pier, taken just before
    he hopped into the water, swam a few feet, and launched himself into
    the stratosphere. :)
     
    ASAAR, Jul 15, 2007
    #26
  7. Richard

    Richard Guest

    Of course you can and should anticipate the critical moment, but the
    odds are still far greater in missing the 'best shot' if you are
    restricted to a couple of frames a second.

    I know, as I go back to the pre motor drive 'old days' when the right
    thumb had to be used to wind on the film. I wonder how may present day
    photographers even know of a real manual camera?

    But believe me, I couldn't wait to get my first motor drive on my
    Nikon F, when I discovered such a thing existed. It opened up a whole
    new world with the possibilities of remote control etc. I would never
    look back and the faster (within reason) the better as far as I am
    concerned, especially as digital film is virtually free :)

    Oh and a big hard drive!

    Richard.
     
    Richard, Jul 15, 2007
    #27
  8. Nice! I can agree with you that in a *RARE* instance such as this a high
    frame rate is needed. I think you would agree what we are seeing in the
    dSLR world is kinda like the majority of the general population buying
    4-wheel drive SUVs when they know they are never going to use 4-wheel drive.
    The person that truly needed it knows they need it. I guess it's good to
    have for that once in a lifetime opportunity?
    The reaction times you speak of make sense. I think the 10 fps of the Mk
    III is going to be a godsend for some and more work filtering out the scrap
    for others.





    Rita
     
    Rita Ä Berkowitz, Jul 15, 2007
    #28
  9. And yet these photographers still were able to show some spectacular shots.
    Yes, it does make for an easier time. The days of film you had a finite
    amount of resources available to you at that instance while digital allows
    you to "sweep the streets" and shovel away the casualties later. A film
    photographer quickly learned the benefits of good technique.





    Rita
     
    Rita Ä Berkowitz, Jul 15, 2007
    #29
  10. So you agree that 5000 frames/s woule be the way to go?
    I have used quite a few, yes.

    -Wolfgang
     
    Wolfgang Weisselberg, Jul 15, 2007
    #30
  11. Richard

    Bill Funk Guest

    You just don't get it, do you?
    *YOU* brought up the duck "analogy".
    --
    THIS IS A SIG LINE; NOT TO BE TAKEN SERIOUSLY!

    Al Gore's son was pulled over by police on the
    San Diego Freeway Tuesday with marijuana, Valium,
    Xanax and Vicodin on him. The kid never had a
    chance. He got hooked on downers at an early
    age listening to his father read him bedtime
    stories.
     
    Bill Funk, Jul 15, 2007
    #31
  12. Richard

    Bill Funk Guest

    Probably Keven, but maybe Karl.
    :)

    --
    THIS IS A SIG LINE; NOT TO BE TAKEN SERIOUSLY!

    Al Gore's son was pulled over by police on the
    San Diego Freeway Tuesday with marijuana, Valium,
    Xanax and Vicodin on him. The kid never had a
    chance. He got hooked on downers at an early
    age listening to his father read him bedtime
    stories.
     
    Bill Funk, Jul 15, 2007
    #32
  13. Richard

    ASAAR Guest

    Kool. I was wondering if it might have been Kvaack. :)
     
    ASAAR, Jul 15, 2007
    #33
  14. If you every been on site with people photographing action
    with these fast digital cameras (e.g. 1DII), you would see
    the same technique as people did with film. They anticipate
    the peak action and during the peak fire off short bursts,
    often 2, 3, or 4 frames, then wait for another peak. They don't
    simply hold the shutter button down and go until the buffer
    fills up except in unusual situations when the action is
    great and prolonged. There are multiple reasons, including
    time to delete later, limited storage space, and wanting to
    keep the buffer empty in case something more exciting happens.

    Here is an example: this grizzly bear took a swat at another
    bear. As he was starting to swing, I fired off a few frames
    to cover the swing and chose the best one to display (actually
    several other frames are pretty good too).

    http://www.clarkvision.com/galleries/gallery.bear/web/brown_bear.c09.09.2004.JZ3F4117.b-700.html

    During ten minutes of fighting, I probably shot
    about 150 frames, all in short bursts during anticipated
    peak action.

    Roger
     
    Roger N. Clark (change username to rnclark), Jul 15, 2007
    #34
  15. There always seems to be people with too much money and too
    little skills and/or brains. But fast cameras do have
    a purpose in the hands of skilled photographers.

    But what one considers rare in action photography may be common
    to someone who seeks out action. Before I got into wildlife
    photography, I couldn't imagine shooting thousands of
    frames per day. Then I got a 500 mm f/4 IS lens (I actually
    bought it for astrophotography) and found out how wonderful
    it is for wildlife. Then I figured out that wildlife
    photography really isn't all that hard; the main issue is
    knowing where to go, then paying to get there, e.g.:

    Grizzly bears: go to Katmai, Alaska,
    http://www.clarkvision.com/galleries/gallery.bear

    Lions, cheetahs etc.: Serengeti, Tanzania,
    http://www.clarkvision.com/galleries/gallery.africa

    Birds: many places but some top spots:
    Bosque del Apache, NM, Venice Rookery, Florida, Everglades,
    Ngorongoro Conservation Area, Tanzania,
    eagles: Homer, Alaska, etc
    http://www.clarkvision.com/galleries/gallery.bird

    Polar bears: Churchill, Manitoba
    (On my list of places to go.) ;-)

    Penguins: South Georgia Island and other places in and near
    Antarctica.
    (Another on my list of places to go.)

    Due to the spread of the human population, animals have
    been cornered in to smaller and smaller areas. One just needs
    to go to those areas to see how awesome wildlife can be.

    Roger
    For many, it need not be a once in a lifetime opportunity.

    A once in a lifetime opportunity might be cheetahs
    playing in your backyard, but even if you had a
    1D Mark II would you be ready and get the shot?
    But if you go to where cheetah's are common (e.g. the
    Serengeti), you would see many and have a much better
    chance of getting such many shots.
    To me 8.5 frames/sec versus 10 is a small difference.
    What I like about the 1DIII is more megapixels, 14-bit
    A/D, designed better AF (if they can get the bugs worked out).
    I personally wanted to see 12 megapixels at 8.5 frames/sec
    than 10 mp at 10 fps. I may wait for the 1DIV.

    Roger
     
    Roger N. Clark (change username to rnclark), Jul 15, 2007
    #35
  16. Richard

    RichA Guest

    This is already happening with video cams that output stills.
     
    RichA, Jul 15, 2007
    #36
  17. Richard

    RichA Guest

    RichA, Jul 15, 2007
    #37
  18. [/QUOTE]
    I agreed with you, even showed ways to improve frame rate by
    2 magnitudes, and you still are not satisfied? Oh well,
    there's no pleasing some.

    -Wolfgang
     
    Wolfgang Weisselberg, Jul 15, 2007
    #38
  19. Speaking for myself, that's the way I do it. I'm sure most of these people
    you speak of came from a film background? The younger generation has a
    different mindset since there really aren't any "consumables" to limit them.





    Rita
     
    Rita Ä Berkowitz, Jul 15, 2007
    #39
  20. Richard

    Richard Guest

    I agree entirely.

    When you only had 36 shots, you had to make them count before having
    to reload.

    The only time I would keep the finger on the button for a very long
    burst would depend on the action, whether in sports or in wildlife,
    when, for example, a GBH takes off from the shore of Venice rookery
    with a bunch of sticks, flies across to the island and then displays
    to its mate on landing.

    Even with digital they is always the risk of the buffer filling up.
    How many times with the 'old' D1 did that happen and you had to sit
    and wait for the paper weight to become usable again, while watching
    the action go by!

    Hosing is all very well, but it just fills up the card and involves
    more wasted time at the PC.

    Richard.
     
    Richard, Jul 24, 2007
    #40
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