Nikon's Buisness Practice

Discussion in 'Nikon' started by Jonesy, Sep 9, 2003.

  1. Jonesy

    Jonesy Guest

    I recently debated with some people on Nikon's old buisness practices,
    and specifically around the early 80's when they sold camera bodies
    such as the EM. One induvidual said that the EM was an overpriced
    camera even back then, and that camera's such as the Canon AE-1
    consistently outsold it.

    I'm not really trying to debate which of these two cameras is really
    better, nor am I trying to start a Nikon/Canon war. But I am really
    curious if anyone out there thinks that the EM was an overpriced
    camera and that Nikon overpriced their products during that timperiod.
    Also - did Canon specifically price their AE-1 conservatively around
    this time?

    Does Nikon still overcharge for their camera bodies, such as the FM3A
    and the F100?
     
    Jonesy, Sep 9, 2003
    #1
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  2. Jonesy

    PSsquare Guest

    Absurd discussion. It was a competitive market, and still is. The only
    issue in 80's was Japanese government/banks role in monetary practices.
    They are paying for that now.

    PSsquare
     
    PSsquare, Sep 9, 2003
    #2
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  3. The AE-1 was, at the time, a better camera. It dramatically outsold the EM.
    However, the FG and FG-20 were released around that time too and were, in my
    opinion, superior bodies to the AE-1. (I think aperture priority is more
    useful to most people than shutter priority is, and the FG also had program
    mode. Yes, Canon later released an AE-1 Program but it still didn't have
    aperture priority mode.) Time has shown both cameras to be reasonably
    durable, but the EM still takes most modern Nikon lenses and the AE-1
    doesn't take modern Canon lenses, so there you go. I use an EM in my Nikon
    kit even today; it's the smallest 35mm SLR Nikon has ever made.

    Jim
     
    Jim MacKenzie, Sep 9, 2003
    #3
  4. Jonesy

    John Miller Guest

    How, exactly, does overpricing work in a free enterprise environment? The
    manufacturer puts an inflated price on an item, and then what?
     
    John Miller, Sep 9, 2003
    #4
  5. Jonesy

    Lourens Smak Guest

    Is that still true today? I held a F75 recently and was amazed at the
    small size and low weight. (380 grams of pure plastic) And the
    similar-sized F55 may be even lighter.

    Lourens.
     
    Lourens Smak, Sep 9, 2003
    #5
  6. Jonesy

    Adam F Guest

    Well perhaps they are smaller but for feel they don't come close to an
    EM/FG, a camera which was derided at its release for its crappy feel...in
    fact I feel a disposable camera compares favourably on feel with some of the
    low-end slrs these days - we've come a long way baby.


    Adam F
     
    Adam F, Sep 9, 2003
    #6
  7. Jonesy

    Tony Spadaro Guest

    I don't think the F100 is over priced. The FM3a is a mechanical camera and
    therefore pretty expensive to build.
    I don't even remember the price of the EM but what I remember about the
    AE-1 and the AE-1p was that they were the "tip point" that sent many a user
    of cheaper cameras into SLRs. The AE-1 was (at one time) the best selling
    SLR in history - a title it probably eventually lost to the K1000. Since
    it's introduction the Rebel has been the best selling SLR and I strongly
    suspect the digital Rebel will do for digital what the AE-1 did for 35mm.

    --
    http://www.chapelhillnoir.com
    home of The Camera-ist's Manifesto
    The Improved Links Pages are at
    http://www.chapelhillnoir.com/links/mlinks00.html
    New email - Contact on the Menyou page.
     
    Tony Spadaro, Sep 9, 2003
    #7
  8. It's certainly physically smaller. It weighs in that range. It has a metal
    body but no motor drive.

    Jim
     
    Jim MacKenzie, Sep 9, 2003
    #8
  9. Jonesy

    Jonesy Guest


    To you, it's an absurd discussion. Of course it's a competitive
    market. This is simply about Nikon's pricing of the EM camera from
    the early 80's, not about Japanese government/banks role in monetary
    practices.
     
    Jonesy, Sep 10, 2003
    #9
  10. Jonesy

    Jonesy Guest

    To be more specific about the price of the camera, the EM
    apparently sold for $254 back in 1982. In today's dollars that
    translates to $482. This is where the claim came that the EM was
    apparently "overpriced". For the price that you would've paid for an
    EM back in 1982, you could buy a grey market silver FM3A from B&H.
    This is where the claim that the EM was "overpriced" came from.
     
    Jonesy, Sep 10, 2003
    #10
  11. Jonesy

    John Miller Guest

    <Spock mode>
    Then they would not sell enough to make continuation of the EM line
    worthwhile at that price.
    Opinions are like belly buttons, y'know...some are better formed than
    others.

    The point I was trying to get you to tell me was that in the long term,
    overpricing doesn't happen in a free market, except in people's opinions.
    That was, I believe, the point that was at the root of PSsquar's "absurd"
    comment.
    --
    John Miller

    The IBM 2250 is impressive ...
    if you compare it with a system selling for a tenth its price.
    -D. Cohen
     
    John Miller, Sep 10, 2003
    #11
  12. Jonesy

    Rudy Garcia Guest

    The manufacturer sets a price and based on competitive offerings the
    customer decides what camera they'll buy.

    There is really no "fairness" involved. You either think it is worth
    the bucks or you buy something else. The manufacturer, on the other hand
    sells a certain volume and realizes a certain gross margin.

    The real question is:

    Was the EM feature set and price point a compelling and competitively
    priced offering in the marketplace?
     
    Rudy Garcia, Sep 10, 2003
    #12
  13. Jonesy

    Lourens Smak Guest

    Well I was specifically interested in the weight; my own "lightweight"
    body is an F70d, and it is not going to be replaced by a more modern
    body; indeed they all feel like they will shatter in your hands when you
    sueeze hard enough. Also all are *too small* to hold comfortably.

    The biggest problem with the EM is the exposure-controls it has. I could
    live with an FG probably (I used an FE for many years) but not an EM.

    Lourens
     
    Lourens Smak, Sep 10, 2003
    #13
  14. Jonesy

    T P Guest


    The biggest problem with the EM is the exposure-controls it *hasn't*.

    ;-)
     
    T P, Sep 10, 2003
    #14
  15. It's got a user-selectable shutter speed (1/90th), what more do you want? I
    suppose 1/180th too? How about 1/45th while you're at it??

    Sheesh! Ingrates...
     
    Martin Francis, Sep 10, 2003
    #15
  16. Jonesy

    Matt Clara Guest

    So, were cars cheap, or cameras expensive?
     
    Matt Clara, Sep 11, 2003
    #16
  17. Jonesy

    Nick Zentena Guest


    Neither? Both? Cameras then sold to a different market. One that was more
    willing to pay for them. How many of us have fully functional 40 year old
    cameras? I wouldn't expect too many of todays cameras to last that long.
    Things are different today. You just can't compare.

    Nick
     
    Nick Zentena, Sep 11, 2003
    #17
  18. Jonesy

    T P Guest

    A couple of years ago I bought a large Nikon outfit which included an
    EM body. I had never used one, mainly because of the lack of exposure
    controls. But I put a film through this one before it went on eBay.

    I got a real surprise. It was **sheer delight** to use. It handled
    beautifully, with a finely crafted shutter release and the silkiest
    film wind-on I had ever used.

    I later learned that the EM had been designed with the same
    ball-bearing wind-on mechanism as the F3, which was also silky smooth
    - ironic, really, considering so many F3s were joined to an MD-4 when
    new and never separated until sold!

    I found it odd that Nikon would put such an expensive feature on an
    inexpensive camera, especially one with only one user-selectable
    shutter speed, but ...

    Mmmmmmm mmmmmmm. Silky!

    ;-)
     
    T P, Sep 11, 2003
    #18
  19. Things are different today, but I expect at least 25 years out of my F100.
    I have one camera that's 40 years old, one that's 37, one that's 35, one
    that's 32 and one that's 26. All work or will work with minor repairs.

    Jim
     
    Jim MacKenzie, Sep 11, 2003
    #19
  20. The only cameras I've used with a comparable winding mechanism are the
    Nikkormat FT-series cameras.

    One little-known thing about the EM is that you can ratchet wind in multiple
    uses of the lever.

    Jim
     
    Jim MacKenzie, Sep 11, 2003
    #20
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