Nikon's shame

Discussion in 'Nikon' started by RichA, Aug 21, 2007.

  1. RichA

    RichA Guest

    They make some of the most sophisticated semiconductor fabrication
    equipment in the World, but they can't afford to build their own fab
    or hire the people needed to implement its use! So they are left to
    go hat in hand to Sony for CCDs and CMOS chips.
     
    RichA, Aug 21, 2007
    #1
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  2. RichA

    frederick Guest

    Somewhere I read (and I can't be bothered looking for the source) that
    Nikon see the future of sensors as commodity items.
    That future may not be too far away.
     
    frederick, Aug 21, 2007
    #2
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  3. RichA

    Father Kodak Guest

    A complete fab costs hundreds of millions of dollars, and includes a
    lot of equipment that Nikon does not manufacture. A Nikon stepper
    goes for several million dollars, so most of that equipment has to be
    bought from others. It is extremely doubtful that Nikon could
    cost-justify an internal fab vs. buying sensor chips from others.

    Lots of companies don't make their own chips. Aside from IBM, I can't
    think of one computer _systems_ company that fabs its own chips. They
    all buy from Intel, AMD, and a host of more specialized companies.

    Foolish idea on the face of it.

    Father Kodak
     
    Father Kodak, Aug 21, 2007
    #3
  4. RichA

    Watcher Guest

    That sums up all of RichA's posts...
     
    Watcher, Aug 21, 2007
    #4
  5. RichA

    RichA Guest

    Not for companies who make their own. Sony and Canon have control the
    other mfgs just do not have.
     
    RichA, Aug 21, 2007
    #5
  6. RichA

    RichA Guest

    Yes, what company wants to diversify or expand? All those thousands
    of aquisitions we see happening every year really are for nothing.
     
    RichA, Aug 21, 2007
    #6
  7. RichA

    frederick Guest

    Acquisitions and takeovers are usually based on taking over competitors
    in the market so that (their argument) advantages can be gained by scale
    of economy and synergies in marketing etc - or (the reality) so that
    competition - a downward force on pricing - is reduced. Diversifying
    usually means adding product which compliments what you already have in
    the marketplace.

    Buying up your suppliers (or customers) is passé - an errant business
    philosophy from the late '70s. It often didn't work - because it was
    based on an assumption that because you can grow great wheat, then
    you're going to be just as great at making fertiliser and baking bread -
    and that is wrong.
     
    frederick, Aug 21, 2007
    #7
  8. RichA

    THO Guest

    Companies frequently design their chips but outsource the production to
    other companies. I'm not suggesting this is the way to go but Nikon
    could design their chips and have a 3rd party manufacture the chips.
     
    THO, Aug 21, 2007
    #8
  9. RichA

    RichA Guest

    You find in the technology fields aquisition to gain technological
    know-how is very common. Biggest example is Microsoft who often
    consume smaller companies to gain their technological expertise.
    I don't make any claim as to its efficiency.
     
    RichA, Aug 22, 2007
    #9
  10. RichA

    frederick Guest

    Sure - that fits with what I said. They buy up companies that threaten
    their market dominance - but it's not so simple as that. MS's core
    products - where they make their $$ are the same as they were over 10
    years ago - in operating systems and office software.
    They haven't bought out Intel or AMD, and AFAIK they won't.
     
    frederick, Aug 22, 2007
    #10
  11. RichA

    Father Kodak Guest

    And in Nikon's case, how do you know that they don't already do that?
    What about LBCAST? What about the comments that Nikon has unique
    versions of Sony-supplied sensors?

    To answer all the comments about acquisitions, large chip companies
    routinely buy smaller ones. But the smaller companies aren't fabbing
    their own chips. A fab is a hugely expensive undertaking, for both
    capital and operating expenses.

    To make a possibly imperfect analogy, do you see any of the auto
    companies buying a steel mill? They are very big users of steel and
    other metals.

    Father Kodak
     
    Father Kodak, Aug 22, 2007
    #11
  12. RichA

    jdear64 Guest

    Fewer and fewer companies make their own chips. Most "semiconductor
    manufacturers" are fabless. High end semiconductor manufacturing is
    VERY expensive to get into, and takes a lot of expertise to do well.
    Most likely the only reason Canon got into making their own sensor is
    because they were making some of their own chips for quite some time
    ( for all the different products they make ). If it wasn't for this,
    they too would most likely be outsourcing their sensors. Nikon
    doesn't make as wide variety of products as Canon so it most likely
    couldn't justify the expense.
     
    jdear64, Aug 22, 2007
    #12
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