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Discussion in 'Photography' started by jon_banquer, Jan 4, 2013.

  1. jon_banquer

    jon_banquer Guest

    I'm still watching as much photography instructional video as I can.

    So far I've watched all of Fundamentals of Photography with Joel
    Sartore and I'm working my way through the photography videos on
    www.lynda.com

    Most helpful tip so far:

    Ben Long saying that when you are shooting hand held you must always
    take note of shutter speed after you meter to find out if it's fast
    enough to get a good shot.
     
    jon_banquer, Jan 4, 2013
    #1
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  2. jon_banquer

    Peter Guest

    Lynda.com has a lot of good, practical instructional videoe, on a host
    of subjects.
     
    Peter, Jan 4, 2013
    #2
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  3. jon_banquer

    Robert Coe Guest

    : I'm still watching as much photography instructional video as I can.
    :
    : So far I've watched all of Fundamentals of Photography with Joel
    : Sartore and I'm working my way through the photography videos on
    : www.lynda.com
    :
    : Most helpful tip so far:
    :
    : Ben Long saying that when you are shooting hand held you must always
    : take note of shutter speed after you meter to find out if it's fast
    : enough to get a good shot.

    Which is another way of saying that what you really want is to be able to set
    a fixed aperture and a minimum shutter speed and let the ISO setting float if
    necessary. I believe that at least the high-end Nikons let you do that, but
    I'm not aware of any other cameras that even come close.

    Bob
     
    Robert Coe, Jan 5, 2013
    #3
  4. Hi Peter,

    So far I'm getting a lot out of them and think they are really well
    done. Got this tip while watching tonight and I found it helpful as it
    was not something I understood. Seems to be a pretty important
    concept:

    Ben Long saying:

    "Camera position and focal length are critical to getting shallow
    depth of field because in addition to aperture size one of the things
    that creates a sense of shallow depth of field in your image is the
    size of the background. You want background images that are big enough
    that you can see the defocusing and very often the only way to get
    that is to put on a more telephoto lens and get further away from your
    subject."

    In other words, if you want shallow depth of field you have got to be
    shooting with a longer focal length.
     
    Jonathan Banquer, Jan 5, 2013
    #4
  5. jon_banquer

    DanP Guest

    I'd like to have a feature, call it max ISO, which would cap the ISO to a value I choose.

    That way the manufacturer would still be able to advertise those big numbers but I would not have to put up with using them.


    DanP
     
    DanP, Jan 5, 2013
    #5
  6. jon_banquer

    Whiskers Guest

    Technically wrong and confusing. A longer focal length will indeed give
    shallower depth of field and a narrower field of view, at any distance, but
    there's a lot more than that to getting stuff in or out of focus.
    No. "Very often the only way" does not mean "you have got to be".

    The best book I've ever found for learning about basic technique, is "The
    Leica and Leicaflex Way", which is probably now out of print (and long
    pre-dates digital cameras). The essentials are the same regardless of what
    make or type of camera you use.

    You won't actually learn very much until you start taking photographs,
    preferably using a camera that does nothing automatically. That probably
    means starting with a good film camera, not one of the 'affordable'
    digital models now being made. Second-hand 35mm and 120 roll-film cameras
    can be good value, provided they're in good working order and any batteries
    they need are still available. Some 35mm compacts are genuinely pocketable
    - eg the Minox 35 and Rollie 35 models, which also have good lenses and
    little or no automation.
     
    Whiskers, Jan 5, 2013
    #6
  7. "I believe that at least the high-end Nikons let you do
    that" is the operative phrase above!

    I'm not sure how far back it goes, but the current low
    end entry models all allow setting a maximum ISO that
    will be used in the Auto ISO mode too.

    Back when the highest usable ISO on a Nikon DSLR was
    only perhaps ISO 800, the Auto ISO feature wasn't very
    significant. (The D2X/D200 era.) But with the
    introduction of the D3, where higher ISO values are not
    just there but also very functional, the use of Auto ISO
    is also very functional.

    I typically shoot in "Manual" mode, and set both
    aperture and shutter speed for artistic intent. I let
    Auto ISO do it's thing to provide "auto exposure"
    functionality or not, depending on whether I want auto
    or manual exposure. If Auto ISO is enabled I use
    Exposure Compensation to fine tune ISO.
     
    Floyd L. Davidson, Jan 5, 2013
    #7
  8. It isn't really very smart to recommend learning photography with film
    as opposed to digital... Digital is just a vastly more appropriate tool,
    if for no other reason than the instant feedback.

    The comments about the Ben Long quote are absurd.
     
    Floyd L. Davidson, Jan 5, 2013
    #8
  9. jon_banquer

    Whiskers Guest

    The 'instant feedback' available from a digital camera is useless for
    assessing anything more than composition and possibly over- or
    under-exposure - unless you carry a large laptop or 'tablet' around with
    you, perhaps.

    If you can afford the sort of digital camera that gives the user complete
    control over apperture shutter focus and ISO 'speed', and which creates RAW
    files, then such a camera will be a good tool for learning the basics. But
    you can buy a lot of film and processing for the price of such a camera.

    Automatic settings are useful, when you understand what the particular
    settings on your particular camera actually do to the choice of shutter
    speed apperture focus and ISO and why you might want the particular sort of
    effect a particular auto setting will try to achieve; but if you start out
    with only automatic settings (eg portrait, group, landscape, seaside,
    fireworks, night, etc) available, the most you can learn is how to get
    images you like out of that particular camera - knowledge that will be very
    hard to transfer to another camera or to an unfamiliar situation.

    Few non-professional digital cameras have image sensors large enough for
    the effects of apperture and focal length on depth of field to be easily
    visible.

    Using film concentrates the mind on what you're photographing and why, as
    well as how. The cost, and the approaching moment when the film 'runs
    out', force you to pay attention rather than blaze away on the chance that
    something "good" will appear amongst all the other images you'll end up
    with.
    <shrug> Even accepting the common use of "telephoto" (which is a design
    of lens whose focal length is greater than the distance from the film plane
    to the middle of the assemblage of refracting elements) to mean "longer
    focal length than 'standard' for the image sensor size (or 'long' for
    short)", the quote is more confusing than informative. I can only hope
    that focussing, field of view, and perspective, are better and more fully
    explained elsewhere in his offerings.
     
    Whiskers, Jan 5, 2013
    #9
  10. jon_banquer

    jon_banquer Guest

    How do you adjust the ISO on a film camera?
     
    jon_banquer, Jan 5, 2013
    #10
  11. jon_banquer

    Whiskers Guest

    Load with film of the 'speed' you want, and/or modify the chemical
    processing to 'push' or 'pull'. Neutral density filters can effectively
    slow down a 'fast' film.
     
    Whiskers, Jan 5, 2013
    #11
  12. jon_banquer

    jon_banquer Guest

    How does film compare to digital in low light?
     
    jon_banquer, Jan 5, 2013
    #12
  13. I shoot a lot of "event photography" in poorly illuminated auditoriums
    and gymnasiums. Most of it is shot at ISO 5000 or higher, and produces
    vivid color images often printed at 16x20 or 24x30.

    How would I do that with film? Granting that flash is absolutely not
    appropriate.
     
    Floyd L. Davidson, Jan 5, 2013
    #13
  14. jon_banquer

    jon_banquer Guest

    "modify the chemical processing to "push" or "pull" doesn't seem very
    practical. Unless I have a dark room I have to give this control of my
    photos to someone else, right? I'm sorry, but I'm just not sold on
    your idea that I should start with film so far. All I see are
    disadvantages to digital from what you have posted.
     
    jon_banquer, Jan 5, 2013
    #14
  15. jon_banquer

    Peter Guest

    On 1/5/2013 11:56 AM, jon_banquer wrote:


    If a comment mad eto you seems out of whack, it may very well be. There
    are many approaches to photography, and many techniques for
    accomplishing a photographic effect. The best one is the one that you
    feel comfortable with and can accomplish with either your equipment, or
    some that you can afford. My suggestion is that you watch some videos,
    and then, is feasible for you, get an entry level DSLR. the best way to
    learn is by doing. Don't worry about "special effects,' until you have
    mastered the basics. Then get equipment suitable for the type of
    photography you like to do. The entry level DSLR will give you a
    relatively inexpensive way to learn.
    Oh! yes, take the BS with a grain of salt.
     
    Peter, Jan 5, 2013
    #15
  16. jon_banquer

    Peter Guest

    what Whiskers says is not at all practical. Also, don't gt too bogged
    down in the craft, it is more important that you practice the art.
    Unless you are planning to shoot for technical purposes, where verbatim
    accuracy is mandated, play with composition, learn what makes an image
    pleasing and pleasant to look at.
    i am active in my camera club, and a strong ctiric of camera club
    systems, in general, but, a local camera club is a great way to learn
    something of both the art and the craft. you will get some pretty decent
    guidance from a good camera club. Try using Google to find one in your
    area, then go to a few meetings, and see if that club's style is
    compatible with your goals.
     
    Peter, Jan 5, 2013
    #16
  17. jon_banquer

    Peter Guest

    I have standardized in ISO 1,600 and 3,200 for night, and birds.
     
    Peter, Jan 5, 2013
    #17
  18. jon_banquer

    DanP Guest

    Change the film. It goes from ISO 100 up to 1600.
    Keep it simple.


    DanP
     
    DanP, Jan 5, 2013
    #18
  19. Practicing "art" is worthless absent the craft to implement it.
    And when you decide what is artistically desirable, you
    then engage craftsmanship to produce a result that
    displays the artistic vision.

    "I can visualize the image that I want, and that if i
    know my technique and my craft I can operate the
    camera and use the right filters and exposure and
    development." Ansel Adams (of course...)

    Of course if you practice art without also learning
    enough of the craft, what you get is not likely to be
    good art...

    You can, in otherwords, be a very good art critic but
    if you aren't a good camera operator you won't be a
    good photographer.
    Might be very useful. Might not. But it's worth looking at.
     
    Floyd L. Davidson, Jan 6, 2013
    #19
  20. Interesting. I've standardized on using the best ISO
    for the specific situation, which always seems to be
    different each time.

    Why use some set ISO if it isn't the right one, just
    because it's a bird or the sun is down?
     
    Floyd L. Davidson, Jan 6, 2013
    #20
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