nose/eye - Passed Out, Part Two

Discussion in 'Darkroom Developing and Printing' started by Dan Quinn, Jan 20, 2004.

  1. Dan Quinn

    Dan Quinn Guest

    The last post to the nose/eye fumes thread reminded me of a thread
    started some 16 months ago titled "Passed Out" All those interested
    should read that thread. Search this NG for, passed out .

    Of course some who participate in this NG know how rediculous and
    unnecessary is such an unwholesome for some working environment.

    It should be made clear that I am not affected by the usual fumes
    associated with darkroom work. I have though adopted an all neutral
    to alkaline processing method. My darkroom is fume free. There
    are NO oders, NO fumes.

    There are special occasions when an acid processing may be called
    for. Personally I don't anticipate any.

    I am amazed at how oblivious many are to a fumeless way of processing.
    I know why though. A one-method-fits-all mentality pervades the
    silver-gelatine community. Dan
     
    Dan Quinn, Jan 20, 2004
    #1
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  2. Dan Quinn

    Jorge Omar Guest

    When I went back to B&W processing after a long dry period, I've searched
    the NET, found the idea of alkali processing, it made sense to me and
    I've started to use it.

    It amazes me why more people do no do it.
    I'm not arguing it's better or worse than acid - but a smell free
    darkroom is so much better!

    Jorge

    (Dan Quinn) wrote in
     
    Jorge Omar, Jan 20, 2004
    #2
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  3. Dan Quinn

    Tom Phillips Guest

    If that were true, Dan, there'd certainly be far fewer arguments and
    debates! There are as many personal preferences in method as there are
    developer film combinations. More...
     
    Tom Phillips, Jan 20, 2004
    #3
  4. Dan Quinn

    Tom Phillips Guest

    I actually like the way an acid fixer smells. I'm perverse, I know...
     
    Tom Phillips, Jan 20, 2004
    #4
  5. I don't mind it either :) I find Acetic acid to be almost required
    for RA printing. I have a strong exhaust fan also.
     
    Gregory W Blank, Jan 21, 2004
    #5
  6. Dan Quinn

    John Guest

    I disagree. Most simply understand that the vast majority of
    the chemicals used in the B-&-W darkroom are not going to cause any of
    the numerous attributions contributed by hypochondriacs.

    BTW, be very careful with that vinegar on your salad.

    Regards,

    John S. Douglas, Photographer - http://www.darkroompro.com
    Please remove the "_" when replying via email
     
    John, Jan 21, 2004
    #6
  7. Yeah, I wonder what these anti-acid crusaders do when it comes time for the
    secondi piatti? Call an ambulance?
     
    David Nebenzahl, Jan 21, 2004
    #7
  8. Dan Quinn

    Jorge Omar Guest

    Right, it has to be aceto balsamico, not any vinegar.
    (-:

    Jorge
     
    Jorge Omar, Jan 21, 2004
    #8
  9. Dan Quinn

    lloyd Guest

    On 20 Jan 2004 15:24:10 -0800, (Dan Quinn) wrote:

    .... My darkroom is fume free. There

    jan2104 from Lloyd Erlick,

    Of course, I echo Dan's remarks. But rather than seem to preaching
    from my soapbox (not so unusual...) I just have to point out that
    odorless darkroom processing is easy and cheap. In fact, I think it
    costs less in money outlay than the usual methods. It's not a cult!

    I'd say that other processes, involving acid or smell in general, are
    specialized activities. They should not be a concern unless they
    become the prime focus of one's time in the darkroom. I use brown
    toner so rarely I don't mind doing it outdoors; if I got into it so
    seriously I couldn't take a raincheque, I'd have to build my darkroom
    to suit.

    And that obliviousness -- it shows up in many areas, not just darkroom
    people. Could it be a touch of macho, which we see in things like
    people not wearing work gloves, or not protecting their hearing when
    ujsing noisy tools, etc etc...

    I should add that I've also found smell free darkroom work to be
    quicker, in the sense of less time consumed for a given amount of
    quality output. I can't quantify it scientifically, but I know it
    allows me to be more productive.

    In my opinion, non-acid, odorless work is part of an overall decision
    to choose quality over quantity, and in the end it turns out that
    quantity does not suffer anywhere nearly as much as quality increases.

    regards,
    --le
     
    lloyd, Jan 21, 2004
    #9
  10. Dan Quinn

    lloyd Guest

    ....

    jan2104 from Lloyd Erlick,

    Is it ever! I used to have the usual tolerance for smell in my
    darkroom, but over the years I lost it more and more. Eventually I
    stopped liking the odor of acetic acid, and the slightest whiff of
    sulfur dioxide just stops me in my tracks. That's really my special
    substance, it seems. Wanna fight? Just blow sulfur dioxide in my
    face...

    regards,
    --le
     
    lloyd, Jan 21, 2004
    #10
  11. Dan Quinn

    Mike Guest

    Frankly I don't know anything about aklaline processing, but Google here I
    come.

    If it is so great, why can't I find these chemicals at my local camera
    store?
     
    Mike, Jan 21, 2004
    #11
  12. Dan Quinn

    Jorge Omar Guest

    If you do a google here at R.P.D for postings Bill Troop, you will find a
    lot, inclusive one in which he states that while at Kodak he tried to
    find out why not and did not get any answers.
    Inertia, it seems.

    Jorge
     
    Jorge Omar, Jan 21, 2004
    #12
  13. Dan Quinn

    Nick Zentena Guest


    Eh? Your developer is alklaline. If you use a water stop [I know it's not
    a real stop] it's hopefully not acid. So that leaves your fixer. If your
    store sells hypo that's it. Some have suggest Agfa's colour fixer.

    It's not very hard to avoid acids if you want.

    Nick
     
    Nick Zentena, Jan 21, 2004
    #13
  14. What you've just described can't be denied, and I too think it's pretty dumb
    when (mostly) guys put on the macho "I love the smell of toxic waste in the
    morning" front. And I do use ear and eye protection when using power tools;
    ear protection not because OHSA says it's a good thing but because it bothers
    my ears.

    But I'm simply not bothered by what others make out to be those horrible
    smells of traditional darkroom chemistry. I don't love them, but I can spend
    literally hours during a printing session locked up in my fairly airtight
    little darkroom with nary a thought about how the chemistry smells; I'm too
    involved with test-strip evaluation and such to notice.

    So I guess it comes down to a matter of different strokes, etc. Nice to know
    there's an alternative available for those people who *are* bothered by these
    smells (and I do know that some folks are much more sensitive to chemicals
    than others; I could work all day with my hands in Dektol, and only complain
    about wrinkled, dried-out skin at the end).
     
    David Nebenzahl, Jan 21, 2004
    #14
  15. Dan Quinn

    Dan Quinn Guest

    That is one of the two main ingrediants of the "one-method-fits-all"
    mentality. The second is the unbroken adherence of the industry, world
    wide, to a process now 80 years running.
    Only Ilford has budged. They do recommend a neutral, ph 7, stop
    for film.

    Photographer's Formulary does sell ready-mix ph 7 plus fixers. Also
    there is the always available very plain fix, sodium thiosulfate.
    It works fine as is and there are no fumes or oder.
    Currently I'm giving P. Formulary's 60% ammonium thiosulfate a try.
    At a 1:31 dilution it works quickly and has no oder. I'll test it two
    bath at 1:63 each bath.
    I've not checked the ph with my pHep ph meter. I think the ph to
    be close to neutral.

    As I stated in my first post, I do not ail when using ph less than 7
    stop or fix. No oder and the chemistry of the process itself are
    my justification for moveing away from less than ph 7.
    Unfair. Dan
     
    Dan Quinn, Jan 21, 2004
    #15
  16. Dan Quinn

    lloyd Guest

    ....


    jan2104 from Lloyd Erlick,
    Because they're too cheap! There isn't enough profit in them. And
    especially because they'd be competing with all those fancy commercial
    packages.

    regards,
    --le
     
    lloyd, Jan 22, 2004
    #16
  17. Dan Quinn

    John Guest

    Well c'mon down here where it's only -1C and we'll discuss he
    issue ;>)


    Regards,

    John S. Douglas, Photographer - http://www.darkroompro.com
    Please remove the "_" when replying via email
     
    John, Jan 22, 2004
    #17
  18. Dan Quinn

    John Guest

    What toxic waste ?


    Regards,

    John S. Douglas, Photographer - http://www.darkroompro.com
    Please remove the "_" when replying via email
     
    John, Jan 22, 2004
    #18
  19. Dan Quinn

    lloyd Guest



    Waatch out, John. You need to take precautionary measures
    *immediately*, for the safgety of your family! You are about to suffer
    an attack of SLOW MOLECULES. You need *layering*.
    --le
     
    lloyd, Jan 22, 2004
    #19
  20. Dan Quinn

    Mike Guest


    I'd rather not mix my own chemicals. Is there anybody that sells an
    alkaline fixer? This is all I need, right? Is Photographic Formulary's
    TF-4 fixer alkaline? I've read that this smells like strong ammonia...
     
    Mike, Jan 22, 2004
    #20
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