One for Tony's Consideration

Discussion in 'Photography' started by Savageduck, Sep 3, 2012.

  1. Savageduck

    Savageduck Guest

    Savageduck, Sep 3, 2012
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  2. Savageduck

    Savageduck Guest

    That was the first pass through my darkroom as it were, and I have some
    other tweaks in mind for a slightly different result.
    I was thinking along the same lines.
    Let me know if you would like to play with the NEF/dng.
    Savageduck, Sep 3, 2012
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  3. Savageduck

    Robert Coe Guest

    : On Sun, 2 Sep 2012 21:13:24 -0700, Savageduck
    : >Tony, I thought this one might appeal to you.
    : >
    : >< >
    : Nice catch, but the processing leaves a little to be desired. The
    : problem inherent in this type of photography is that we catch people
    : as they are instead of posed. We have to deal with shadows as we see
    : here.
    : With that white hoodie, you can't lighten the whole image, but you
    : could do a little PS magic selectively with the dark hands and face.
    : There's character in that face. It would be worth a little work.

    Yes, you could Photoshoppe that image, but what would be the point? The
    shadows appear to contribute to a true depiction of the venue, and they don't
    keep you from seeing the subject's face. It's not necessary to make all
    lighting appear perfect, even if you can. The current fixation on perfection
    hasn't always characterized candid photography, and in street photography it
    seems particularly out of place.

    If I were editing this picture in DPP (I neither have Photoshop nor know how
    to use it), I might brighten the shadows by one notch (of the available five),
    more for the pants than for the hands or face. But I think that's the most I'd
    do. The objective here isn't to create a mug shot.

    Note that the fact that this is a B&W image gives you more latitude to leave
    things alone.

    Robert Coe, Sep 3, 2012
  4. Savageduck

    Savageduck Guest

    Yup! B&W can hide a lot of issues. The original was not too bad, but it
    needed cropping and it seemed to be appropriate for a B&W treatment.

    I would add that I have the time to tinker with my images, and that was
    a crop from the original, the first of my edits, and in the finishing I
    added a slight vignette which certainly effected the appearance of the
    shadow covering the hands.

    I am reworking it now, first paying more attention to the RAW
    processing, color and tone before going to the B&W conversion.
    Savageduck, Sep 3, 2012
  5. Savageduck

    tony cooper Guest

    You want points? I'll give you points:

    1. We like to fiddle with images. Out in the field, we look for
    images. Back at home, we like to fiddle.

    2. We like to practice our "skills". Little exercises like this help
    us learn.

    3. We're bored. We like to keep ourselves occupied.
    Right. Those of us who shoot "street" go out and look for natural
    scenes of people of interest (except in Barrow, Alaska where a truck
    on the road is considered to be "street"). Sometimes we come home
    with dozens of shots, but don't like any of them. Sometimes we come
    home with one or more "keepers".

    The in-betweeners, like this one, are OK but just not quite right. We
    can either abandon them or work on them in PS for the reasons above.

    Ethics are not involved. Because we are doing this for our own
    entertainment, and not worried about misrepresenting anything to
    anyone else, we don't have to adhere to any rules.
    I haven't fiddled with the file, but the Duck's got good control over
    the white hoodie. If you make any global changes, that might be lost
    and there'd be some blow-out. Just a tad of lightning on part of the
    face, and on the hands, will bring out the face and the hands. In PS,
    this would be done either by making selections and changes to the
    selected areas or by creating a layer that lightens up the shadows
    globally and then adding a background copy layer over this and making
    it a Layer Mask. Then, just the deeply shadowed areas would be
    exposed by painting out on the Layer Mask.

    I might do an additional step and lighten up the trousers using the
    same techniques, but not as much as the hands. I wouldn't want a lot
    of contrast between hands and trousers.

    BTW, most of what I've described above either can't be done in GIMP or
    would be much more difficult to accomplish in GIMP.
    It's a color image that has been converted to B&W. He hasn't left it
    alone. He's altered it. How he altered it in the conversion is part
    of Points #1 and #2. Duck probably used Nik and not just PS.
    tony cooper, Sep 3, 2012
  6. Savageduck

    Savageduck Guest

    I agree with all of the above.
    B&W conversion was done with NIK Silver Efex Pro 2.0.

    Here is the progression I used for the second pass at this:
    The files here have been resized for web.
    The first is the unmolested NEF converted to JPEG.

    #2 is the over the top adjustment to the color, only intended to deal
    with the shadows in preparation for B&W conversion.

    #3 is the uncropped Silver Efex conversion.

    #4 cropped version 2.

    < Images/USENET SHARE/B&W Exercise-01
    Savageduck, Sep 3, 2012
  7. Savageduck

    sid Guest

    tony cooper wrote:

    ha ha ha, almost had me there, did you learn your comedy at the same place
    you learnt photoshop?
    sid, Sep 3, 2012
  8. Savageduck

    Robert Coe Guest

    : tony cooper wrote:
    : > BTW, most of what I've described above either can't be done in GIMP or
    : > would be much more difficult to accomplish in GIMP.
    : ha ha ha, almost had me there, did you learn your comedy at the same place
    : you learnt photoshop?

    Cut the man some slack. If he misread my article as coming from a GIMP user,
    his response may not be quite the non sequitur it seems.

    Actually, I did look at GIMP once upon a time. Didn't think much of it then,
    but I understand it's changed a lot since.

    Robert Coe, Sep 3, 2012
  9. Savageduck

    tony cooper Guest was just a reference to another thread.

    Nothing comedic about it, though. In PS, you have the ability to use
    a Layer Mask. In GIMP, you don't. Brightening up parts like this is
    easier to do with a Layer Mask. Using selections tends to result in
    hard lines even with a feathered selection.

    That's not a knock on GIMP. The people that use GIMP aren't
    interested in doing this type of thing, so they don't need Layer
    tony cooper, Sep 3, 2012
  10. Savageduck

    tony cooper Guest

    Keep working. The face has been lightened a tad too much. The ear on
    (the viewer's) left looks like it has gangrene.

    The result is excellent on the hands and trousers, though. The crop
    is right.
    tony cooper, Sep 3, 2012
  11. Savageduck

    Savageduck Guest

    That's an easy fix.

    Check your email, the DB URL to the NEF is there if you care to play.
    Savageduck, Sep 3, 2012
  12. Savageduck

    tony cooper Guest

    I forgot to mention that the "improvements" could also be done in
    Lightroom using the Adjustment Brush over the face and hands. Since I
    don't use LR for editing, I'm not sure of how to go about it, but I'm
    sure it can be done.
    tony cooper, Sep 3, 2012
  13. Savageduck

    Savageduck Guest

    OK! Fix made and added to the DB folder.
    Savageduck, Sep 3, 2012
  14. Savageduck

    Savageduck Guest

    Quite easily actually.
    Just select the adjust brush in the "Develop" module (circled in my
    screen shot) and a drop down menu for making brush adjustments opens
    (circled). Brush the area you want adjusted, make the adjustments using
    the drop down menu, and close the menu when done.
    < >
    Savageduck, Sep 3, 2012
  15. It was hilarous. This one is even better.
    A Google search will turn up 86,000 hits for you to learn
    about how ignorant that statement is.
    Actually with that one using a series of selections
    works much better. At least it does if you want high
    quality results. A Layer Mask is okay for a quicky fix
    that gets close enough.

    If you can't figure out how to avoid "hard lines even
    with a feathered selection" in GIMP, that's not a
    problem with GIMP. The non-functional part there is
    between your ears. Sheesh, that's the first day in
    a Remedial Editing class, for 2nd grade students...
    People who don't know much about editing images say
    stupid things like that.

    People who want to get real work done with GIMP learn
    how to edit, and never look back.
    Floyd L. Davidson, Sep 3, 2012
  16. Post the URL! A good picture can actually be made from it.
    Floyd L. Davidson, Sep 3, 2012
  17. Savageduck

    Savageduck Guest

    OK! Floyd, I'm not proud, check your email for the NEF.
    Savageduck, Sep 3, 2012
  18. Savageduck

    sid Guest

    I knew that

    Oh there most certainly was
    I'd get that foot out your mouth before you swallow it if I were you
    That's just about the most ill informed post in the whole gimp photoshop
    thing that's been going on here.
    sid, Sep 3, 2012
  19. Savageduck

    tony cooper Guest

    That much I know. It's just which of the sliders, and how much, that
    I wouldn't know to do because I'm not used to using LR. I just wanted
    to mention that PS is not the only way this can be done.
    tony cooper, Sep 3, 2012
  20. Savageduck

    tony cooper Guest

    I was under the impression that GIMP doesn't have the Layers option,
    but some Googling says it does. I went through some of the hits but I
    can't figure out if the GIMP layer mask option is the same as the PS
    layer mask option.

    Maybe someone who is familiar with both systems can add to this.
    tony cooper, Sep 3, 2012
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