One of my friends stumbled upon this...

Discussion in '35mm Cameras' started by Brian C. Baird, Jan 11, 2005.

  1. Brian C. Baird, Jan 11, 2005
    #1
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  2. Brian C. Baird

    PGG Guest

    Not boring, but less photographic skill if you ask me. This is an
    excellent photography, but what kind of skill did it take to capture this
    picture besides the knowledge of how to operate expensive equipment? Did
    the photographer compose the photo in a superb way? Did he or she
    painstakingly scout out the best position to capture the image, or
    practice extreme patience (as required by wildlife photographers)? Did he
    or she press the button at just the right moment or was this a serious of
    "motor-drive" captures? Did the photographer express himself in a unique
    artistic way?
     
    PGG, Jan 12, 2005
    #2
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  3. Brian C. Baird

    Annika1980 Guest

    Annika1980, Jan 12, 2005
    #3
  4. Brian C. Baird

    Mark² Guest

    You've obviously not done much football photography, bub.

    If you had, you'd understand quite well that capturing sharp, well-composed
    images of critical moments is VERY hard to do well. These open-field
    moments are especially tough.

    This is an EXCELLENT shot - Even even if it DIDN'T have the painfully
    humorous element of the guy getting a major heel smacked into his "boys."
    :)
     
    Mark², Jan 12, 2005
    #4
  5. Brian C. Baird

    PGG Guest

    I've shot my nephew's soccer games with a manual-focus camera. Sure, I
    had no big white Canon lens and I wasn't up to Sports Illustrated
    standards, but it really wasn't that hard to get a sharp, well-exposed
    image. Heck, I even got lucky and did get a few in critical moments.
    What is so hard about it? Take hundreds and hundreds of pictures with
    your 400mm lens, rely on autofocus/autoexposure, and pick out the good
    ones and make some clever crops. There was an interview with a pro
    football photographer in Popular Photography last month and he said that
    the logistics is the hardest part. I believe him. The hardest part ain't
    taking the picture. Check out the article if you can.

    I'm not saying there is no skill involved. Just a different type of
    skill that is less related to photography IMHO.
     
    PGG, Jan 12, 2005
    #5
  6. Brian C. Baird

    Mark² Guest

    Logistics IS indeed a hard part...once you've got the photographic
    essentials mastered.
    Have you heard that word "mastered" before?
    It means that you have become accomplished at something...usually concerning
    a skill in which true mastery eludes most.
    How is it less related to photography???
    The wildlife photographer needs to study the grizzly's habits (for example),
    become familiar with them, understanding what they are likely to do, and the
    situations they are likely to encounter in any of hundreds of situations.

    OK. I'll play along... It takes considerably more time and effort to GET
    to Alaska...find the grizzlies...avoid dangerous situations...and etc. than
    it does to push the button on a camera. But... if that somehow implies
    that all one need do at that point is essentially point and click (lots of
    times), and BOOM!! -National Geographic will likely hire you! That is just
    plain stupidity, and is frankly the way you sound.

    This "logistics" thing can sometimes be true of other photographic fields.
    Heck--even seemingly spontaneous street photography, and even (gasp)
    landscape. An integral part of being an accomplished photographer is
    researching/knowing your subject. This is true of all of the above, and
    even sports photography. There is a different set of knowledge and
    experience that, once sacquired, will bring FAR greater rates of success.
    This knowledge and experience CANNOT be divorced somehow from "photography"
    as you imply.

    You are exhibiting the classic signs that most non-photographer folks
    exhibit, which is essentially a "discounting" of what constitutes the field
    of photography. I DO NOT claim that one must be some sort of genius, or
    even that one must obtain some sort of "status" or esteem to make
    wonderfully pleasing photographs. A child can capture great
    images--sometimes naturally, and with minimal planning or "know-how."
    Totally true, and I would promote that understanding as well.

    But your comments were quite specific to sports, and the sort of shot which
    was offered for display here.
    It may help you to know that I am not a full-time sports photog, or anything
    near it. But...I have spent considerable time shooting various sports
    including football. While it is quite easy to shoot mediocre images of ANY
    sport, it is NOT easy to shoot great images...no matter how many frames per
    second your camera churns out crap.

    I am not making, nor have I EVER made any claims of greatness in ANY aspect
    of photography.
    BUT...My ears tingle a little when I hear someone such as yourself--spewing
    the same sort of utter crap that you have here...which is to flippantly
    assuume that all one must do is crank the auto-winder/fps
    and...voila!!...greatness worthy of publication!!

    That is total, utter bullcrap.
    Other than this little quibble...I'm sure you're a genuinely good guy...so
    don't take it too personally.
    ;)
    Mark
     
    Mark², Jan 12, 2005
    #6
  7. Brian C. Baird

    casioculture Guest

    Sorry Mark,

    I agree with him.

    May history forbid that I ever go to Alaska chasing Grizzlies. I think
    it might well be appropriate for humanity to declare that we've had
    enough of those 'grizzly catching a fish!' photographs.

    As for sports, I think the mere fact that the 'best' racing sports
    photographers stack a bunch of motor-driven and remote-controlled
    cameras provide an insight into the mentality of that genre.

    And sorry, Brian, I will say it; I find sports photography
    *artisitically* boring. The image you posted proves nothing to the
    contrary.
     
    casioculture, Jan 12, 2005
    #7
  8. Brian C. Baird

    Mark² Guest

    You:
    -------------
    Sorry Mark,

    I agree with him.
    -------------------------
    Me:
    --------------------
    Great!
    There is no rule against seeing things through a tunnel.
    Feel free to trivialize the skills and persuits of others because they do
    not suit your personal fancy.
    The world is full of belittling nitwits who put down what they do not
    personally appreciate.
    We will surely survive one more.
     
    Mark², Jan 12, 2005
    #8
  9. Brian C. Baird

    casioculture Guest

    Resorting to personal attacks does not make your argument more
    persuasive, or, indeed, compensate for the lack of argument. You
    snipped the points of arguments I made and replied in anger to "Sorry
    Mark, I agree with him"; not good.
     
    casioculture, Jan 12, 2005
    #9
  10. Brian C. Baird

    me Guest

    Why? If I were very generous I could at best call this a decisive moment. At
    worst it's merely a depiction of a funny expression. I find it boring but
    YMMV.
    Sign,
    me
     
    me, Jan 12, 2005
    #10
  11. Brian C. Baird

    me Guest

    Motor winders, animal behavior knowledge and remote/dangerous locations
    aside the first rule of photojournalism is to never assume that a photo's
    value is in anyway based on how difficult it was get. My .02
    Sign,
    me
     
    me, Jan 12, 2005
    #11
  12. I love the Expression on the Denver Player's face. somthing about just
    screams "Not AGAIN!"
     
    hotchkisstrio, Jan 12, 2005
    #12
  13. Brian C. Baird

    Annika1980 Guest

    From: "Mark²" mjmorgan(lowesteven number here)@cox..net
    If all the grizzlies were in an open field 100 yards long then you might have a
    point.
    At the risk of incurring the wrath of Mr. Witte, shooting football with today's
    modern equipment is like shooting fish in a barrel.

    The shot mentioned in the OP is a neat shot. The other 20 or so the guy took
    on the same play were probably garbage.

    The wildlife photographer might spend days or weeks trying to get a decent shot
    while the sports shooter has a field of opportunity right in front of him.
     
    Annika1980, Jan 12, 2005
    #13
  14. Brian C. Baird

    Andrew Price Guest

    Less than what?
    Who cares? It's a great photo.
     
    Andrew Price, Jan 12, 2005
    #14
  15. Brian C. Baird

    Mark² Guest

    Then why have none of your images of football games come close to this one?
    -Even a somewhat blurred shot (owing to your slower 400mm lens)?
    What's your keeper ratio in action shots?
    Yes, and yet every game there are scores of excellent shots, which capture
    critical moments.
    You never have produced on your bet you made with some bloke a while
    back...that given hi lens, you could shoot to similar glory. Perhaps you
    could...but if you did, you would deserve credit for working that excellent
    equipment well.

    All you have to do is look at the shots many newbies post here.
    If you look at collections, they are often filled with crap.
    Why is it that my 10D pictures always seem to come out better than when I
    hand the camera to my wife?
    Answer: Knowledge, experience, technique.
     
    Mark², Jan 12, 2005
    #15
  16. Brian C. Baird

    casioculture Guest

    What exactly is great about it?
     
    casioculture, Jan 12, 2005
    #16
  17. Brian C. Baird

    casioculture Guest

    To say 'decisive moment' would be far too 'very generous'.
     
    casioculture, Jan 12, 2005
    #17
  18. Brian C. Baird

    casioculture Guest

    this one?

    What is it exactly that you admire about this shot?
     
    casioculture, Jan 12, 2005
    #18
  19. Brian C. Baird

    PGG Guest

    A PGA Tour photographer probably requires more of a photographic eye than
    a NFL photographer. He can choose any vantage point and there is a wide
    array of different backdrops (instead of the stands omnipresent at a
    football game).
     
    PGG, Jan 13, 2005
    #19
  20. But... but... a foot to the balls IS art to me, man!
     
    Brian C. Baird, Jan 13, 2005
    #20
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