original film format for slide distribution

Discussion in '35mm Cameras' started by Joseph Brown, Jul 30, 2003.

  1. Joseph Brown

    Joseph Brown Guest

    Hello, I would like to take some photos and have them duplicated in slides.
    Many copies of the original film will be made for distribution.

    What is the best format for the original shoot? Positive or Negative film?

    I understand that if negative will be used for aquisition, the copies will
    be made using Vericolor duplication slide film.

    Or its better to shoot with slide film and copy it into other slides?

    I'm asking this, because I know that movies shot in 35mm motion film
    intended for projection, are shot initially with negative film. Only the
    final intended for distribution in cinemas is in positive.

    What are the advantages/disadvantages to copy a negative into positive?
    What are the advantages/disadvantages to copy a positive into positive?
     
    Joseph Brown, Jul 30, 2003
    #1
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  2. Joseph Brown

    Comrade Guest

    image structure (grain/sharpness/speed) will be better with slide, the
    Vericolor film is very old emulsion technology

    as is color reproduction going to be better with the newer slide/dupe system

    also, the Vericolor film, must be processed in formaldehyde, and if it
    isn't the dupes will fade very quickly in the magnenta toe, and such
    processing is more expensive, considering the additional health and safety
    considerations OSHA requires for formadehyde in the USA, and I am sure
    other countries look at it similarly

    and even with the right processing, the whole dye system of that film, is
    old, and image stability and long term keeping will fade quicker, that a
    real slide/duper

    Vericolor slide film, is good for an afterthought of getting a dupe, a
    resort, not the rule, not the plan

    same labor cost, in either case, for a lab having equipment, same
    equipment cost, realistically, and except for the formaldehye related
    costs, your only cost consideration, is what the films themselves cost

    --
    Comrade
    see my ROAD TO THE UNITED FRONT http://www.mysolution.ws
    the aristocracy was the problem in 1776, the aristocracy is the problem today
    http://www.aclu.org/dissentreport
    Aristocrats CRUCIFIED Jesus
    we must close the door by which aristocracy arises

    Martin Luther King Jr said
    "I have a dream that one day this nation will rise up and live out the true
    meaning of its creed: "We hold these truths to be self-evident: that all
    men are created equal."

    and their creed became, I REFUSE TO DREAM

    and when we REFUSE TO DREAM? when we go on a strike? when we propose
    laissez faire with respect to what we control? WELL, you see the story of
    laissez faire changes quick, immediately there is not a hands-off policy,
    and we are forced back to work, via anti-strike legislations, Taft-Hartley
    acts, etc., not only are we not allowed to dream our dream, we are forced
    to keep dreaming their's, we are niether allowed to dream or not dream,
    and such is how Pharoah robs a man of his asylum in himself, and sets up
    Pharoah as man's only asylum (http://www.mysolution.ws/cabal.htm)

    Statements of supposed science, without statistics, are just as much religion,
    and ONLY statements of faith as any religion, or statement of faith,
    except they profess the supposed scientist is God, even more
    dangerous than religion or God. There is no science, without a statement of
    statistics, AND any statement without statistics, is a conjecture of faith
    by the professor of such statement, and the "believer". An ethical
    house cleaning of science and government is in order.

    "Does God want goodness? or the choice of goodness?
    Is the man who chooses bad, somehow better,
    than the man who has the good forced upon him?"
    a quote from the movie, A Clockwork Orange, Kubrick

    Enlightenment is man's release from his self-incurred tutelage.
    Tutelage is man's inability to make use of his understanding
    without direction from another. Self-incurred is this tutelage when
    its cause lies not in lack of reason but in lack of resolution
    and courage to use it without direction from another. Sapere aude!
    "Have courage to use your own reason!" - that is the motto
    of enlightenment.
    Kant -- What Is Enlightenment? 1784

    "It all sums up into one single purpose,
    the abolition of dog-eat-dog under which we live...
    and I traveled the United Front road to get it."
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    Timothy Leary's dead, No No No No, He's outside, looking in"
    MOODY BLUES

    "Then Jesus said unto them, Take heed and beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees."--Matthew 16:6
    (religious and political leaders that are hypocrites)

    (leaven is yeast, AIR IN BREAD, bullshit, fluff, marketing, snake oil - HYPOCRISY)

    "How is it that ye do not understand that I spake it not to you concerning bread, that ye should beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees? Then understood they how that he bade them not beware of the leaven of bread, but of the doctrine of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees."--Matthew 16:11-12

    "But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in."--Matthew 23:13

    "Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation."--Matthew 23:14

    "Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves."--Matthew 23:15

    "Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone."--Matthew 23:23

    "Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess."--Matthew 23:25

    "Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness."--Matthew 23:27

    "Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous,"--Matthew 23:29

    "And he charged them, saying, Take heed, beware of the leaven of the Pharisees, and of the leaven of Herod."--Mark 8:15

    "And he said unto them in his doctrine, Beware of the scribes, which love to go in long clothing, and love salutations in the marketplaces,"--Mark 12:38


    see my ROAD TO THE UNITED FRONT http://www.mysolution.ws
     
    Comrade, Jul 30, 2003
    #2
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  3. Joseph Brown

    Gordon Moat Guest

    If you have photo prints, and need slide copies, then some duplicating stand
    set-up would work. Once you have the first slide for each image, duplicate
    slides can easily be produced using Kodak E-dupe or similar. Check with your
    lab to see what services they offer.
    If you have the original negatives, that would work better than photographing
    prints with a copy stand set-up. However, using Kodak Vericolor film or
    similar, is a negative film copying another negative, though the result would
    be a positive. If you just used transparency film to copy a negative, you
    would get what looks to be another negative in appearance. Again, your lab may
    suggest the best method. Also, if they are B/W prints, and they are altered
    somewhat from the negatives, some copy stand to transparency (slide) set-up
    may give better results.
    Quite often true, but check with your lab to see what they recommend.
    In some cases, if the print is very altered from the original negative, the
    best representation of the colour, tone, shading, and composition might be a
    slide photographed from a copy stand. It really would be an image by image
    judgement call, since it will be tough to tell what works best for each image,
    until you see the final results. Sometimes doing several methods, and choosing
    the best may be necessary.
    A straight copy just results in a transparency that appears to be the
    negative. If you used negative film, like Vericolor, to copy a negative, the
    result would look like a positive, suitable for projection or viewing on a
    light table. With B/W negatives, you should use B/W negative film to make the
    copy, since the results will look better than from using Vericolor.
    My experiences with E-dupe show that sometimes there is a slight increase in
    contrast. Usually the copy is really good, and difficult to tell any
    differences from the original. Some transparency films just do not copy very
    well. Be prepared to have some images done over, if they are just too far off.

    Ciao!

    Gordon Moat
    Alliance Graphique Studio
    <http://www.allgstudio.com>
     
    Gordon Moat, Jul 31, 2003
    #3
  4. Joseph Brown

    Alan Guest


    If you know that you're going to need duplicate slides, shoot on slide
    film, and when you take the picture, simply set the winder to
    continuous and let it shoot as many copies as you need. The advantage
    to this is that each "duplicate" is an original, with all the quality
    of an original, and it's cheaper and quicker to process a roll of
    slides than to get a slide duplicated.
     
    Alan, Aug 2, 2003
    #4
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