OT: How cold is Barrow?

Discussion in 'Digital Cameras' started by Dudley Hanks, Feb 19, 2014.

  1. Maybe you should do one of two things:

    1) Listen to them, or
    2) Get a medical degree yourself.
    That is exactly your problem.
    The evidence clearly shows otherwise.

    I'll repeat it again, low BP will not cause you to blackout while
    dehydration commonly causes exactly that.
    I know how to provide emergency treatment for people in
    immediate cardiac distress.

    Ask your physician questions like that. And ask about BP vs
    dehydration.

    And *listen* to what they tell you!
    But if it suited your needs at the moment, you would!
    No, I don't write such papers, but yes I do read them.
    Then the Narcan won't have any effect at all.
    Then you'd better start believing what the doctors told you.
    It's pretty obvious from your previous statements plus now the
    one above that you've heard all this before and just refuse to
    believe it.
     
    Floyd L. Davidson, Feb 26, 2014
    #81
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  2. Dudley Hanks

    Eric Stevens Guest

    https://www.google.co.nz/#q=low+blood+pressure+blackout
    "Syncope (/?s??k?pi/ SING-k?-pee), the medical term for fainting or
    passing out, is defined as a transient loss of consciousness and
    postural tone, characterized by rapid onset, short duration, and
    spontaneous recovery, due to global cerebral hypoperfusion (low
    blood flow to the brain) that most often results from hypotension
    (low blood pressure)."

    I know its only Wikipedia but I would still rate it ahead of Floyd L
    Davidson in these matters.
    Are you answering my question or denigrating my comment?
    Either way, what evidence?
    Dehydration can cause you to black out, no argument.
    Low BP will cause you to black out also. You should no that.
    That doesn't sound like an answer to my question. You are flanneling.
    Do you think that after the blackout we all sat around and discussed
    the weather?
    I certainly believed what they told me. It's a pity you don't seem to.
    Duh.

    End of argument. I think I will go away and find a tree stump to talk
    to. :-(
     
    Eric Stevens, Feb 26, 2014
    #82
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  3. Talk to your physician, and stop trying to self diagnose.

    Loss of consciousness with low BP is a common result of dehydration.
    Talk to a physician and stop trying to self diagnose.
    Low BP didn't cause your dehydration, but dehydration did cause
    the low BP.

    Again, stop trying to self diagnose.

    Put it this way, if your accident had happened where I was the
    senior medic at the scene, the first thing that would have
    happened to you would have been an IV. The only question would
    have been whether to run normal saline or D5W. The slightest
    hint of the history you have and it would have been D5W. I'd have
    assumed an heart attack, and let the doctor sort it out.

    (That's sugar water with big molecules so they don't leak out.
    Great stuff for re-hydrating.)
    It was a precise answer.
    You might as well have, considering how much you paid attention
    to what you certainly were told.

    You did notice that comment, right?
    You are the one who said, "I visit my GP every three months and
    have seen my cardiologist several times over the period. The
    trouble is they both have the mindset that if low is good then
    lower is better."

    They have a "mindset" that you don't believe. They have the
    education and experience, and you don't.
    Nice mind set you have, but it might just kill you some day too.

    You do know that people in Emergency Medical Services literally
    are trained not just in the medical aspects, but also how to
    deal with a guy like you! Someone calls for an ambulance
    because they think a guy is having a heart attack... the guy
    refuses to be treated though. He's got "indigestion". Or just
    low hydration. Or whatever.

    Treatment: Standby, and when he loses consciousness no consent
    is needed.
    You'd finally have something on your level.
     
    Floyd L. Davidson, Feb 26, 2014
    #83
  4. Dudley Hanks

    PeterN Guest

    Eric,
    I gotta say that Floyd's advice o this topic, was possibly the best
    advice I seen on Usenet.
    We all know tht all anyone can do is talk about general principals, and
    of course, he cannot diagnose your problems. all I will say is that if
    my doctor was giving me advice that didn't make sense, I would go for
    other opinions. BTW I had a lot of clients in the health car field, and
    what you are reporting sounds like some miscommunications between you
    and your health providers.
     
    PeterN, Feb 26, 2014
    #84
  5. Dudley Hanks

    Eric Stevens Guest

    Don't you read?

    Can't you understand?

    I have had heavy sessions with both my cardiologist and my GP (General
    Practitioner - what you call a Physician) over this exact issue.
    First you dodged. Now you weave. This is not your normal behaviour.
    Dehydration helped, no doubt about that, but I was not severely
    dehydrated. My medication had already pushed my BP to an extremely low
    level. That's why my Cardiologist and GP between them more or less
    halved my medication after the accident.
    That nothing like this happened t me suggests that you have completely
    misjudged the events.
    How do you tell whether ciirculation problems are veinous or arterial
    in nature?
    They have now changed it. They were only concerned with whether or or
    I fainted when I stood up suddenly. They now realise there is more it
    than that.
     
    Eric Stevens, Feb 27, 2014
    #85
  6. Dudley Hanks

    Eric Stevens Guest

    The point is I am taking my (2) doctor's advice. I have done my best
    to summarise what they told me and what their reactions were after the
    accident. Floyd is not having any of it and insists I have got it
    wrong.

    I haven't yet mentioned that drivers in 60mph impacts are
    automatically taken to the ICU (Intensive Care Unit) where they are
    put through the hoops with a full medical team, CAT scan etc. Their
    conclusion about what caused me to black out was much as I reported. I
    should mention that they had years of my medical history available to
    them on line. When I was released from hospital, their medical file
    went to my GP and Cardiologist who put me through further hoops
    themself.

    I am not making any of this up. Nor am I misrepresenting what their
    conclusions or final actions were. I know it's not consistent with
    what Floyd would expect, but I can't help that.
     
    Eric Stevens, Feb 27, 2014
    #86
  7. Dudley Hanks

    PeterN Guest

    It's not consistent with hat I would expect either. I have been around
    health care professionals, and know enough that I owuld seek alternative
    opinions. This is not a topic for debate, as I am simply stating what I
    would do.
     
    PeterN, Feb 28, 2014
    #87
  8. Consider that Eric says the ambulance crew did not start an IV,
    but that he was taken directly to an Intensive Care Unit.

    I suppose the EMT's where he might not be trained at that level,
    but I'm more inclined to thing Eric is being creative. The
    "ICU" certainly was an ER, not an ICU.
     
    Floyd L. Davidson, Feb 28, 2014
    #88
  9. Dudley Hanks

    Eric Stevens Guest

    I've done it.

    First the team at Waikato Hospital where I was taken after the
    accident.

    Second, my Cardiologist.

    Third, my GP.

    You have to realise that in reaching the conclusion they did, the last
    two were in effect admitting that they had boobed in letting my BP get
    so low. This was not a conclusion they reached with cries of joy and
    relief. It was not their easy way out: quite the reverse in fact.
     
    Eric Stevens, Feb 28, 2014
    #89
  10. Dudley Hanks

    Savageduck Guest

    If Eric was in the state of confusion, and low level of consciousness
    he says he experienced pre, during, & post accident, I suspect he was
    in no condition to report on the actual treatment administered by EMTs
    at the accident scene and in the ambulance.
    I believe that EMTs in NZ and Australia are every bit as professional
    as those found in US communities.
    I seriously doubt that Eric went from ambulance to ICU without being
    triaged through an ER, even in NZ.
     
    Savageduck, Feb 28, 2014
    #90
  11. Exactly. His statements about what happened and why are not reliable.
    They absolutely are. However, not all EMT's are trained to
    start an IV. In many places here in the US ambulance services
    are not funded well enough to provide advanced training. In the
    US Emergency Trauma Technician and "EMT I" level training does
    not include starting an IV.
    In fact there is no reason at all for him to have ever been
    close to an ICU, given what he has described.

    Eric has never paid a lot of attention to any distinction
    between what he knows to be fact and what he would imagine the
    facts to be if only he knew them. That is not restricted to
    this discussion nor did it start in this decade.
     
    Floyd L. Davidson, Feb 28, 2014
    #91
  12. Dudley Hanks

    Tony Cooper Guest

    I wonder if it was an EMT who was the first responder. My son is a
    firefighter, and a certified Paramedic. Emergency calls, in this
    area, are responded to by the fire department. Every emergency
    response vehicle is staffed with a Paramedic. EMTs do mostly patient
    transfer. However, many firefighters are certified as EMTs as my son
    was before he got his Paramedic certification.

    What the practice is in NZ is unknown to me, though.
     
    Tony Cooper, Feb 28, 2014
    #92
  13. Dudley Hanks

    Eric Stevens Guest

    I'm beginning to get pissed off with the way you are rejecting what I
    tell you and creating your own substitute world.

    New Zealand hospital organisation is undoubtedly different from what
    you are used to. The section where I was taken may well be called an
    ER in his part of the world but where I went they were labelled ICU 1,
    2 and 3. http://waikatodhb.govt.nz/images/198212fcf.jpg?h=196&w=400
    See also http://tinyurl.com/ngen2hd the description of the function of
    the new unit which opened after I was there. "Patients admitted to
    Waikato Hospital with critical injuries will soon have access to a
    state-of-the-art intensive care unit".

    I had just experienced a high-impact collision, my chest was one giant
    contusion and my pelvis seemed to be damaged. With a high impact
    collision there is always the risk of internal injuries with
    accompanying bleeding. I was wheeled into the ICU for (a) close
    examination and (b) readiness for immediate action if any internal
    injury started to manifest itself. Only once they had cleared me was I
    wheeled out to a ward.

    What you call EMTs are most certainly well trained. I know, because my
    sister in law has just retired after more than 30 years in the job.
    They normally don't do much in the field (unless it is urgent) as they
    can have a helicopter on the site within a few minutes.
     
    Eric Stevens, Feb 28, 2014
    #93
  14. Dudley Hanks

    Savageduck Guest

    In all 50 States EMTs are State licensed, and have to meet the required
    licensing standards. Naturally where fire departments take on the
    responsibilities of first responders their members volunteer or
    professional have to meet those standard to gain their paramedic/EMT
    certification and corresponding licence.

    There are all sorts of Schools and community colleges offering that
    training. Here are two in California:
    < https://www.cpc.mednet.ucla.edu/course/emt >
    <
    http://academic.cuesta.edu/nursing/programs.htm#EMERGENCY MEDICAL TECHNICIAN (EMT- BASIC)
    There is information available regarding Paramedic/EMTs in NZ, and it
    seems those following that career path in NZ are highly trained and
    professional:
    < http://www.nzparamedic.org >
    <
    http://www.aut.ac.nz/study-at-aut/study-areas/health-sciences/paramedic-and-emergency-management
     
    Savageduck, Feb 28, 2014
    #94
  15. Dudley Hanks

    Eric Stevens Guest

    I was fine, walking about, and talking to ambulance, fire crew and
    police at the scene.
    HMVA (High Speed Motor Vehicle Accident) - they don't bother with
    triage. They shoot them straight into an ICU.
     
    Eric Stevens, Feb 28, 2014
    #95
  16. Dudley Hanks

    Eric Stevens Guest

    On Thu, 27 Feb 2014 23:40:00 -0500, Tony Cooper

    --- snip ---

    You are twisting my words. There was a slightly vague feeling before I
    blacked out and then, after the crash I switched back on like a lamp.
    My biggest problem was the pain of broken ribs and cracked pelvic
    sutures. I didn't want to move unaided.
    The fire service got there first, followed by the police, with the
    ambulance last. There wouldn't have been five minutes between them.
    The fire service had the gear to get me out of the car, including a
    back-board to which they strapped me. The ambulance crew took over
    from there. Their greatest concern was whip-lash and they had me in a
    neck-brace.
    Especially in the country, the Fire Service deals with more motor
    vehicle accidents than they do fires. They are trained and equipped
    accordingly.
     
    Eric Stevens, Feb 28, 2014
    #96
  17. Dudley Hanks

    Savageduck Guest

    ....and yet this very hospital has an "Emergency Department" and among
    its various departments it has an ICU/HCU. Nowhere in that description
    does it state anything regarding cardiac/trauma triage, which in almost
    every hospital system I know of is dealt with in an Emergency
    Department, and your hospital actually has one of those. They even use
    the word "Emergency" to direct you there.
    < http://www.waikatodhb.govt.nz/for-patients-and-visitors/in-an-emergency/ >

    < http://www.waikatodhb.govt.nz/search/SearchForm?Search=Emergency+Department >
    I wager that even in NZ it is standard practice to stabilize trauma or
    cardiac patients in whatever they call their emergency/trauma
    department before transferring that patient to an ICU or surgery/OR.
    They appear to be well trained and professional, requiring several
    levels of training.
    <
    http://www.aut.ac.nz/study-at-aut/study-areas/health-sciences/paramedic-and-emergency-management
    However, they are the first responders on the spot needing to make
    those split second decisions which can save a life. They need to have
    the training and skills to provide that first aid and make those life
    or death decisions. The decision to use road transport, or a helicopter
    usually comes from an evaluation made on the spot by the emergency
    personnel, many times together with a hospital trauma team.
     
    Savageduck, Feb 28, 2014
    #97
  18. Dudley Hanks

    Savageduck Guest

    Hmmm....
     
    Savageduck, Feb 28, 2014
    #98
  19. Dudley Hanks

    Eric Stevens Guest

    I've been mulling over whether or not to respond to this at the source
    and in view of what Floyd has done with it I wish to deny that I said
    I was in a state of confusion, or experienced a low level of
    conciousness pre, during or post accident - except for those seconds
    for which I blacked out.
    Nevertheless I did. I asked why and was told that it was normal when
    high speed impacts were involved.
     
    Eric Stevens, Feb 28, 2014
    #99
  20. Dudley Hanks

    Eric Stevens Guest

    On Thu, 27 Feb 2014 21:35:56 -0800, Savageduck

    --- snip ---
    The point is that they can't determine what internal damage may be
    present without using the gear (X-Ray and CATscan) which apparently is
    in the ICU. Accident victims would have to go there first if they were
    to be triaged.
     
    Eric Stevens, Feb 28, 2014
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