Panasonic G1

Discussion in 'Panasonic Lumix' started by Irwell, Feb 11, 2009.

  1. Irwell

    Bruce Guest

    "David J Taylor"

    Not hearing any more of your nonsense could only be an improvement.
     
    Bruce, Feb 14, 2009
    #21
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  2. Irwell

    Bruce Guest


    Its main limitation is the effective 2.0X multiplication of focal length
    when lenses for 35mm film or "full frame" digital are used. Even a 12mm
    ultra-wide angle Voigtländer lens becomes an underwhelming 24mm wide
    angle equivalent.
     
    Bruce, Feb 14, 2009
    #22
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  3. Irwell

    Guest Guest

    one now. more in the future.
    rangefinders don't have a through the lens viewfinder, while the g1
    does.
    not really.
     
    Guest, Feb 14, 2009
    #23
  4. Irwell

    Guest Guest

    olympus lenses go down to 7mm which is a 14mm equivalent and the 2x
    crop is a plus for those who use telephoto lenses.
     
    Guest, Feb 14, 2009
    #24
  5. I consider this group the right place for the Panasonic G1, and not the
    point+shoot group, and not the rangefinder group, because it is part of an
    SLR system. Do we agree on that?

    David
     
    David J Taylor, Feb 14, 2009
    #25
  6. Irwell

    Bruce Guest

    "David J Taylor"

    But it *isn't* part of an SLR system. As you now seem to have realised,
    it isn't an SLR.

    Micro Four Thirds is a system all of its own, a point and shoot digital
    camera with interchangeable lenses. It can accept all manner of other
    lenses with adapters. But that doesn't mean it is part of any of the
    systems those lenses come from, some of which are SLRs, some not.

    For example, does the fact it can accept Leica M lenses with an adapter
    make it a Leica M camera? Of course not.

    By the same logic, the fact that will accept any number of brands of
    lenses from 35mm SLRs doesn't make it an SLR. The fact that it will
    accept Panasonic, Leica, Olympus and Sigma lenses for Four Thirds DSLRs
    doesn't make it a DSLR.

    If it doesn't have TTL viewing via a reflex mirror, it cannot possibly
    be a single lens reflex, and it certainly isn't part of a DSLR system.

    But no-one can stop you discussing it here, even though any discussion
    would probably be best directed to rec.photo.digital.
     
    Bruce, Feb 14, 2009
    #26
  7. That depends on whether you want to make the definition depend on form
    or function. Making it depend on a specific technological answer to a
    functional requirement is as foolish as defining a knife as
    necessarily having a steel blade.

    The important functional point about an SLR is that in composing the
    photograph you look through the same lens as the camera because the
    image the camera sees (or will see when you press the shutter) is
    reflexed up into the viewfinder. It shouldn't matter whether that
    single lens reflexing is done with a movable mirror, a fixed half
    silvered mirror, a prism, or in these days of digital sensors and
    displays a handful of electronics.
    But that was a rangefinder camera with a separate viewfinder. In terms
    of functional camera features the Panasonic is more like today's
    DSLRs than an exchangeable lens rangefinder camera.
     
    Chris Malcolm, Feb 14, 2009
    #27
  8.  
    Chris Malcolm, Feb 14, 2009
    #28
  9. Bruce wrote:
    []
    I see the function of viewing through the taking lens with an eye-level
    viewfinder as being done electronically, rather than with mirrors and
    prisms. Whether the viewfinder of the G1 and its sucessors is of adequate
    quality will be a matter for individual judgement.
    We disagree here - I do see it as part of the 4/3 system just as much as
    the other cameras and accessories. Perhaps I am wrong in that view. I
    don't agree that the catch-all rec.photo.digital group is the best place
    for discussions about the G1, though, as the traffic is perhaps still too
    great there.

    David
     
    David J Taylor, Feb 14, 2009
    #29
  10. I would argue that in terms of functional definitions the G1 clearly
    fits in the DSLR category. If people are worried about the difference
    in how the single lens reflex bit is done in the G1 (electronically
    rather than optically) then logically speaking we ought to begin a new
    category under DSLR such as DSLMR (Digital Single Lens Mirror Reflex)
    for the subcategory of mirror reflex cameras.
     
    Chris Malcolm, Feb 14, 2009
    #30
  11. Irwell

    Guest Guest

    it most definitely *is* part of an slr system, although one with just a
    few lenses right now. .
    which p&s camera can take lenses from an slr lens system? the fact
    that it can take lenses at all makes it *not* a p&s compact camera.
    that's an outdated definition. the mirror and pentaprism have been
    replaced with a functionally equivalent electronic counterpart.
     
    Guest, Feb 14, 2009
    #31
  12. Irwell

    Guest Guest

    exactly. it works the same way, but the luddites just can't deal with
    change.
    true but it was still a mirror.
     
    Guest, Feb 14, 2009
    #32
  13. Chris Malcolm wrote:
    []
    There comes a point, though, where you end up with too many sub-groups and
    the discussions get lost. It was with the best of intents that the ZLR
    and point+shoot groups were set up last time, and yet the ZLR has somewhat
    fallen by the wayside as low-cost DSLRs have become available. I really
    wish there a better way than:

    - expensive and complicated cameras
    - cheap and cheerful cameras
    - everything else

    <G>

    David
     
    David J Taylor, Feb 14, 2009
    #33
  14. Irwell

    ASAAR Guest

    Still obnoxious, but similar to, and much mellower than the
    sock-puppet trolls of yore.
     
    ASAAR, Feb 14, 2009
    #34
  15. Irwell

    Bruce Guest

    "David J Taylor"

    That makes it just like any other point and shoot digital camera. The
    only difference is that this one has interchangeable lenses.


    Yes, you are wrong again, because the lenses for the G1 will not fit any
    of the Four Thirds DSLRs.

    And the Four Thirds lenses will only fit with an adapter, just like
    lenses for 35mm from Leica M and R, Pentax, Nikon etc...


    I do sympathise. The signal/noise ratio at rec.photo.digital is far too
    low for reasoned discussion. I see no problem discussing it here, as
    long as no-one claims it is a DSLR.

    No mirror, no reflex viewing, so it cannot be an SLR. But it is a neat
    camera, and seems to be attracting a lot of interest. I gather that it
    has already sold more than the previous total for all Panasonic DSLRs.
     
    Bruce, Feb 14, 2009
    #35
  16. Irwell

    Guest Guest

    that's a key difference!
    so what? the only reason they don't fit is because they changed the
    lens mount, just like canon and minolta did 20 years ago.
    and nikon lenses fit on canon cameras with an adapter too. the fact
    that the g1 can accept slr lenses at all means it's not a p&s.
     
    Guest, Feb 14, 2009
    #36
  17. Irwell

    Jeremy Nixon Guest

    When this group and the other rec.photo.digital.* groups were created,
    we had a long, not-very-useful discussion about whether we wanted to
    break it down by type of photography, or technical camera type. The
    latter was what it ended up people wanted. Unfortunately, the result
    is that we end up locked into a breakdown based on the technology that
    existed at the time, and, well, now we see the result.

    To me, what's important is how the camera is used -- will it be used
    like a DSLR, or like a point-n-shoot? I think the former, and thus
    don't really care if it's discussed here. After all, the kinds of
    discussions that are likely to occur will be more applicable to this
    group than one about point-n-shoot cameras. Someone who buys this
    camera is likely to be doing the same kind of photography that we
    talk about here, so what's the problem?
     
    Jeremy Nixon, Feb 15, 2009
    #37
  18. Irwell

    Guest Guest

    the pellix had a pellicle mirror.
     
    Guest, Feb 15, 2009
    #38
  19. David J. Littleboy wrote:
    []
    except that the user can change lenses, a rather significant degree of
    control!
    I haven't used the camera - have you? I'd love to handle one and see just
    how good the viewfinder actually is.

    Not a small sensor, but the standard 4/3 sensor. Many DSLRs have slow AF
    with particular lenses.

    ... and no more a point+shoot than any of today's DSLRs.

    David
     
    David J Taylor, Feb 15, 2009
    #39
  20. The interchangeable-lens version of the Sony F707 wasn't widely sold,
    David.

    <G>

    David
     
    David J Taylor, Feb 15, 2009
    #40
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