Pentax rumours become truth: *istDL to come as low budget model

Discussion in 'Pentax' started by Johannes Schwab, Jun 1, 2005.

  1. Johannes Schwab, Jun 1, 2005
    #1
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  2. Johannes Schwab

    Trapezium Guest



    Another mediocre step by Pentax along the road to bankruptcy.

    The last thing that the market needs now is yet another discount de-featured
    DSLR.
     
    Trapezium, Jun 1, 2005
    #2
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  3. Johannes Schwab

    Pete D Guest

    Amazon already have them for preordering.
     
    Pete D, Jun 1, 2005
    #3
  4. Johannes Schwab

    Pete D Guest

    Discount maybe but defeatured, what is it missing? Another, what are the
    others missing?
     
    Pete D, Jun 1, 2005
    #4
  5. Johannes Schwab

    Alan Browne Guest

    I hope you realize how illogical that sounds. ;-)
     
    Alan Browne, Jun 1, 2005
    #5
  6. Johannes Schwab

    Alan Browne Guest

    It may be what Pentax needs to keep less photography-serious Pentax lens
    owners from running to Canon.
     
    Alan Browne, Jun 1, 2005
    #6
  7. Johannes Schwab

    Trapezium Guest


    As far as I understand, a the Pentaprism has been replaced by a
    'pentamirror' and the AF system has been reduced from 11 points to three (a
    la Olympus E300)

    There will almost certainly be other downgrades from the Ds which, itself,
    was downgraded from the D - if this keeps up we'll soon be back at the
    digital equivalent of a box Brownie.





    Another, what are the
    A Foveon sensor?
     
    Trapezium, Jun 1, 2005
    #7
  8. Johannes Schwab

    Alan Browne Guest

    Sounds like a winner to me. Perhaps Kodak should take notice now that
    they've killed their SLR.
     
    Alan Browne, Jun 1, 2005
    #8
  9. Johannes Schwab

    John Francis Guest


    "almost certainly" ?

    Only if the marketplace demands it. This camera is aimed at the price
    point the Japanese market seems to want - an eventual US street price of
    under $600, body only.

    The next predicted K-mount body is a feature-rich upgrade to the *ist-D
    (I'm betting it will be called the *ist-Dn), around a year from now.

    The DS (and, now, the DL) aren't aimed at existing SLR users - they are
    targetted at the folks moving up from a digital point-and-shoot. That's
    the only area in the digital camera marketplace where there is growth,
    and an opportunity for Pentax to capture a little more market share.

    Pentax may be going bankrupt, but it won't be beacause of the *ist-DL
     
    John Francis, Jun 1, 2005
    #9
  10. Johannes Schwab

    Trapezium Guest

    What sort of bollox is that supposed to be? - the new DL is a downgrade,
    whether the 'market' wants it, or not

    As for your heady predictions of a new 'feature rich' pro-type camera from
    Pentax, you might be in for a surprise.

    Pentax are on their financial uppers and may well have embarked on a last
    ditch effort to secure sales by launching a cheaper-to-manufacture version
    of the Ds

    This leaves no room for the current istDs - so you can expect that to
    disappear, and since no self respecting Pro is going to buy into the Pentax
    system the top end of the market isn't going to be attractive to Pentax
    either.

    I predict no replacement for the D, and the imminent end of the Ds - leaving
    Pentax as a digicam & low end dslr manufacturer (if the survive at all -
    which is by no means certain)

    That would very probably be the best financial strategy for them - and is,
    inho, the most likely scenario
     
    Trapezium, Jun 1, 2005
    #10
  11. Johannes Schwab

    John Francis Guest

    If you got down off your podium, and actually read what I posted, you'd
    find nobody was disagreeing with that - just your assertion that there
    would be other downgrades.

    Nope. Their best strategy is to go after market share now (hence the DS
    and the DL), and then try and sell these guys (plus the D owners, who are
    mostly drawn from the ranks of the existing Pentax SLR owners) upgrades.
    Digicams are a saturated market - there are no opportunities there. Low
    end DSLRs are a good market for now, but they'll saturate that fairly soon.
    Trying to sell only into a highly-competitive, low-profit-margin, saturated
    market is a quick way to commit commercial suicide.

    The current head of Pentax spelled all this out some time ago, at about
    the time the DS was released; a new, low-end DSLR (target street price
    was even quoted as being around $600, driven by the Japanese market),
    then the digital MF, then an upgraded follow-on to the *ist-D.

    If Pentax manage to stick around (which, granted, is by no means certain)
    this is the product line I expect to see. There's very little to be gained
    by moving further to the low end - at $600 or so Pentax are already quite
    price competitive with advanced P&S models. There *might* be a niche for
    a $500 body, but there's only a limited window of opportunity to go after
    those prospective customers. After that, you're stuck with trying to
    convince your customer base to buy new models. Fortunately most camera
    owners are irrational, and will stick with what they have rather than
    switching to a different brand, even if their only investment in lenses
    is the $100 kit lens that came with their original body.
     
    John Francis, Jun 1, 2005
    #11
  12. Johannes Schwab

    Alan Browne Guest

    In the film only lines, each OEM has cheapie SLR's to pro SLR's. This
    is no different, it's just taking longer for the OEM's to find the
    boundaries.
     
    Alan Browne, Jun 1, 2005
    #12
  13. Johannes Schwab

    Trapezium Guest




    OK.let's start again- I was unduly terse, but that was because you seemed
    determined to be pedantic.

    My take (FWIW) is that the Dl will have other features removed because it's
    an exercise in cost cutting.

    These might well be features that Joe Average doesn't give a damn about -
    and since, at this segment, price is everything, the lack of features will
    probably not hurt sales.

    The big question, of course, is what price Pentax pitch it at - and,
    frankly, their track record is not good in this respect.

    The D was ludicrously over-priced, and the Ds only sells because of a
    seemingly unending rebate in the UK. Plus, all the manufacturers have to
    overcome the very big hurdle presented by the Canon 350 - now down to about
    £530 ex lens.

    In the short term things look rosy for budget dslr buyers as the various
    brands jostle each other to ever lower price points - but this is precisely
    what Pentax do not want to occur, they need an income stream, and the need
    it fast - market share with minimal profit per unit is not much use to them
    at the moment.

    Bottom line, I suppose, is that the market is just too crowded, and Nkican
    have too much of an established lead for Pentax to catch up.

    If they had launched a truly innovative product they might have stood a
    chance - but (yet)another dumbed-down dslr?............
     
    Trapezium, Jun 1, 2005
    #13
  14. Johannes Schwab

    Morris Sachs Guest

    I was a Pentax MX 35mm user. I now have a fairly comprehensive Nikon DSLR
    system. I will be very interested in the new Pentax *istDS as I have a
    drawer-full of old K-mount lenses that served me well for many years and that
    are now doing nothing. I wouldn't expect top-line performance from the DS,
    but if it's cheap enough, I'd get it just to be able to use my old-buddy K
    lenses once in a while.
     
    Morris Sachs, Jun 1, 2005
    #14
  15. Johannes Schwab

    Darrell Guest

    Actually that is what the market is calling for. The biggest growth in dSLR
    is the sub $1,000(usd) market. People who think the market revolves around a
    $2,000 dSLR body are dreaming.
     
    Darrell, Jun 2, 2005
    #15
  16. Johannes Schwab

    Darrell Guest

    The so called "Pro" (and wannabee) market is small. The now discounted
    RebelXT sell 10:1 over the now discounted 20D, why? Because the market is
    looking for lower cost cameras.
     
    Darrell, Jun 2, 2005
    #16
  17. Johannes Schwab

    Trapezium Guest


    You're right - but why bring out another low spec dslr? - why not forego the
    R&D costs of the 'new' model, and just cut the price of the Ds?

    The only reason I can think of is that, for Pentax, the *istDs is too
    expensive to produce, and cutting the price long term isn't viable.

    So they've cobbled together a camera that can be manufactured for noticeably
    less than the cost of producing the Ds - which only seems to confirm that
    Pentax have made a conscious decision to become a 'cheap' brand.

    This might be what the market wants (although I think that, if necessary,
    Canon & Nikon can 'out-cheap' Pentax for as long as it takes to put Pentax
    out of business) but it's not what existing Pentax owners want.

    They want higher spec DSLR's but they may well have to come to terms with
    the fact that Pentax have hoisted their flag in the bargain bin and no
    super-de-luxe DSLR will be forthcoming.

    So they will exit the brand in search of better things - as (probably) will
    the new intake of budget buyers once they get bored with the limitations of
    their cut price DL.
     
    Trapezium, Jun 2, 2005
    #17
  18. Perhaps, but I don't think that their business case for this camera is to
    only be able to sell them to existing Pentax lens owners, even though this
    is certain to be the actual group that buys such a camera.

    The best hope for Pentax and/or Konica-Minolta, is for someone like Sony to
    buy one of them. Olympus is already beyond hope with the 4:3 system.
     
    Steven M. Scharf, Jun 2, 2005
    #18
  19. Unfortunately, except for Canon and Nikon, we're seing only the cheapies in
    digital SLRs. Now Pentax will have one consumer level D-SLR, and two
    entry-level D-SLRs.
     
    Steven M. Scharf, Jun 2, 2005
    #19
  20. Canon could definitely do this, if they wanted to. Nikon might have a harder
    time of it, since they don't make their own sensors. Pentax has such tiny
    market share, that I doubt that Canon and Nikon are interested in cutting
    their margins to compete in the super-cheapo segment. People that care only
    about price are not the most profitable customers.
     
    Steven M. Scharf, Jun 2, 2005
    #20
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