[photo] Brisbane cityscape

Discussion in 'Australia Photography' started by Troy Piggins, Jan 5, 2008.

  1. Troy Piggins

    Troy Piggins Guest

    * Rob. is quoted & my replies are inline below :
    Will do. Thanks.
    I'll look into those. Had a quick look around after I posted the
    above. Man, there's so many different types. Hard, soft, .3,
    ..6, .9, ND, GND, and on it goes...
     
    Troy Piggins, Jan 6, 2008
    #21
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  2. Troy Piggins

    Rob. Guest

    I have P120 and P121 plus you need a holder and mounting rings to suit
    your lens thread.
     
    Rob., Jan 7, 2008
    #22
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  3. Troy Piggins

    PixelPix Guest


    As a starting kit I would recommend starting with a 3 Stop Hard and a
    3 Stop Soft for sunrise/sets, plus a 2 Stop Soft for general landscape
    work.

    As extras, some effect grads are handy..... eg a sunset and a sky blue
    for those times when nature does not provided enough colour.

    Lee and Singh-Ray filters are well worth the extra coin, as you will
    find that often the cheaper ones (inc Cokin) are not truly neutral and
    invoke a colour cast.

    http://russellspixelpix.blogspot.com/2007/05/tip-4-neutral-density-filters.html
    http://russellspixelpix.blogspot.com/2007/05/tip-5-graduated-neutral-density-filters.html

    I got mine from the UK at http://karlu.com
     
    PixelPix, Jan 7, 2008
    #23
  4. Troy Piggins

    Troy Piggins Guest

    * Rob. is quoted & my replies are inline below :
    Thanks Rob.

    Sorry to bother you again.

    That P-series fits OK onto 77dia lenses like my Canon EF-S
    10-22mm and EF 24-70mm? Those filters are only 84mm wide,
    assume there's no vignetting?

    I see a Cokin H250 kit that includes the filter holder + P121L +
    P121M + P121S. From adorama.com it's US$52.50 + delivery.

    Still need the adapter ring (P477) by the looks. From
    adorama.com it's US$9.95.

    Thoughts on P121S vs P121F?
     
    Troy Piggins, Jan 7, 2008
    #24
  5. Troy Piggins

    PixelPix Guest

    If you use the Cokin "wide" adapter you will be able to use 10mm on
    your 10-22, but you will only be able to use one filter.... if you use
    the regular multi-filter holder it will be seen.

    My trick was to use the wide adapter for the first and then use blu-
    tac in the corners of the second filter to stick it to the first....
    a bit of a PITA really.
     
    PixelPix, Jan 7, 2008
    #25
  6. Troy Piggins

    Troy Piggins Guest

    * PixelPix is quoted & my replies are inline below :
    Thanks mate. I've been reading a little more on them. Starter
    kit recommendations seem to be in line with yours, or perhaps
    just the 2 stop soft and 3 stop hard.
    I've been reading people using the Cokin holder because it's good
    and cheap, but they're not using the Cokin filters as you
    mention. Apparently they're not truly "neutral", they're gray
    with a magenta cast sometimes. Common filters recommende seem to
    be the Hitech for cheaper, Lee and Singh-Ray for higher end.
    Thanks for the info. That second tip of yours falls into line
    with what I've been reading. Good advice there.
     
    Troy Piggins, Jan 7, 2008
    #26
  7. Troy Piggins

    Troy Piggins Guest

    * Troy Piggins is quoted & my replies are inline below :
    <snip />

    Been reading some more. Apparently on my 1.6 crop camera there
    can be vignetting at 16mm or wider with the 84mm filters.
     
    Troy Piggins, Jan 7, 2008
    #27
  8. Troy Piggins

    Rob. Guest

    You will need the 3 stops in some cases. The 120/121 are half graduated
    which do work.

    Not being familiar with the new series, just comments, yet someone else
    may have some input.

    The ones you mentioned from the kit as for the 121s - 3/4 of the filter
    if you shoot just sky - not sure if I would be able to use this.

    I think I would have to look and see if they would work for me.

    I have the 12-24 Nikon and have used the P series with - 77mm filter
    thread. You can cut off the extra slots on the holder if necessary

    I can see ways around the vignetting problems on the sides also density
    problems.

    The other thing is that you may want to play with HDR merging of
    bracketed images - this also works. Either a standalone or a Photoshop
    plugin.


    # 120 - 2X graduated neutral density filter reduces the light 1 stop
    # 121 - 8X graduated neutral density filter reduces the light 3 stops.
    # 121L - 2X Light starts with the same neutral density as 120, but
    feathers the grey almost from the color edge and more gently graduates
    to clear. One stop of compensation.
    # 121M - 4X Medium is the same gentle graduation as 121L but with twice
    in dens ty. Requires 2 stops of compensation.
    # 121S - 8X Soft is twice the density of 121M and the graduation extends
    to 3/4 of the filter. Requires 3 stops.
    # 121F - 8X Full is the same as 121S except that the neutral density
    grey cover the entire filter. Requires 3 stops

    May have a look at the filters next weekend, going near a Ritz Camera
    store and if they look OK, Ill pick some up and bring a set back.
     
    Rob., Jan 7, 2008
    #28
  9. Troy Piggins

    Rob. Guest

    How much magenta do you find the Cokin introduces with the grey grad on
    digital.? I scanned it out on film.



    r
     
    Rob., Jan 7, 2008
    #29
  10. Troy Piggins

    D-Mac Guest


    There is an awesome amount of barrel distortion in that shot and the field
    of view is way too wide for the scene. Most people expecting to take "the"
    shot of Brisbane city do it from half way up the wall or from footpath at
    the top if you aren't into cliff jumping.

    The result of all your processing is a bland image, free of life, with no
    contrast which is needed to give a picture like this some character and hold
    your attention. It does none of that.

    The distortion ultra wide angle lenses create, alters the way viewers
    perceive perspective. Humans see a wide angle of view that is compensated
    for by our brain. When we look at a picture than hasn't got that
    compensation we often reject it as being too radical, even offensive.

    An approach I often use to overcome this issue is a stitched image but
    instead of taking several frames on a rotating head (which introduces it's
    own distortion problems) I use my feet. Walking along a boardwalk for
    example, shooting the extra frames of a pano.

    This technique produces a flat field look to the shot similar to what we'd
    perceive it be after our brain has compensated for the angle of view
    distortions. Rotating cameras can't replicate this view. It also separates
    the 'real' photographers who can recall the position and angle of view of
    the last frame, from the happy snappers who think it's easy.

    PTGUI often baulks at joining such images but careful hand assembly is
    usually worth the effort.

    I've shot Brisbane for calendars, for post cards and for wall art. One of my
    Brisbane city *can't be done* enlargements is in the foyer of a popular city
    hotel. Well it was last time I looked, anyway! Absolutely the only time to
    shoot a city over water is early morning or late afternoon. Maybe early
    evening if dark photos appeal to you... Backlit buildings pose a particular
    challenge for digital cameras only one maker (so far) has successfully
    addressed.

    One of Australia's foremost stock library shooters told me in 1973 that it
    was a waste of time taking photos between 8:00 AM and 4:00 PM, you simply
    couldn't get the contrast needed to create a memorable image. He also told
    me using slide film over 100 ISO was sacrilege.

    The problem with digital cameras is getting detail in deep shadow without
    unacceptable noise and keeping (getting in the first place) detail in
    highlights. Finding detail in shadows is doing the same as increasing the
    ISO which increases the noise and lowers the detail.

    As your photo shows, trying to pull detail out of thin air by blending
    doesn't result in the sort of contrast with detail than makes a memorable or
    interesting photo. The latest D3 is very good in this area but still not as
    good as a dual sensor Fuji s5 which lacks enough resolution for such a job,
    incidentally.

    Try shooting identical dark and light shots then blending the shadows with
    the highlights using the eraser tool to remove unwanted image. I lot of
    people overlook using dual images and the eraser tool but it produces HDR
    images without a HDR "look" to them.

    I like your Macros better this shot.

    Douglas
     
    D-Mac, Jan 7, 2008
    #30
  11. Troy Piggins

    D-Mac Guest

    There is a thing in photoshop called "curves" which when used with the lasso
    tool, feathered by 100 or so will do just as good a job as a graduated ND
    filter!

    Douglas
     
    D-Mac, Jan 7, 2008
    #31
  12. Troy Piggins

    PixelPix Guest

    With this technique, how are the varying relationships between
    foreground and background objects dealt with?
     
    PixelPix, Jan 7, 2008
    #32
  13. Troy Piggins

    Troy Piggins Guest

    * D-Mac is quoted & my replies are inline below :
    Probably agree about the lack of contrast. Still learning that
    too. I think my second attempt has a little better contrast:
    http://piggo.com/~troy/photos/2008_01_05/1280/img_5401.jpg
    I used different, and I think better, blending of different
    exposures in that one. And I didn't contrast mask it at all.
    I realise there is distortion there. Still getting used to, and
    happy to play with along the way, this lens.
    Thanks for your detailed critique Doug.
    Well I've had more practise over the holidays with them. That's
    why I'm attempting something different now. While I've far from
    mastered macro photography since my first attempts in late Nov
    07, I feel comfortable with them and am happy with my results.

    Now I want to have a go at landscapes/cityscapes. You've just
    seen my first 2 attempts. I'll concentrate on what I've been
    advised/coached in these threads and try to improve.

    Gimme a month or 2. I'm back at work so don't have the time I
    did with macros.

    Then after I'm comfortable with landscapes, I'll try night shots,
    or some other style.

    By April I plan to become a wedding photographer. Haha, just
    kidding. :)

    Thanks again Doug.
     
    Troy Piggins, Jan 7, 2008
    #33
  14. Troy Piggins

    Pete D Guest

    What utter, complete rubbish. If the shot is overexposed there is no bring
    it back unless you take bits out and put in new bits. A graduated ND filter
    can prevent over exposure
     
    Pete D, Jan 7, 2008
    #34
  15. Troy Piggins

    D-Mac Guest

    With this technique, how are the varying relationships between
    foreground and background objects dealt with?

    Try it yourself Russell.
     
    D-Mac, Jan 7, 2008
    #35
  16. Troy Piggins

    PixelPix Guest

    I would not know where to start manipulating the laws of physics,
    hence I am asking you how it is done.
     
    PixelPix, Jan 7, 2008
    #36
  17. Troy Piggins

    Troy Piggins Guest

    * PixelPix is quoted & my replies are inline below :
    I see what you are saying, Russell. If you take a picture in one
    place and say there are 2 posts lined up so that you can only see
    the front one, take a few steps to the right to take another
    frame all of a sudden you see both posts. How do you stitch that
    together?

    My understanding of panos is that you need to rotate the camera
    around some axis so that the relationship between all objects is
    maintained for that view.
     
    Troy Piggins, Jan 7, 2008
    #37
  18. Troy Piggins

    PixelPix Guest

    That's correct Troy, Nodal rotation is the very best way to achieve
    seamless blends in stitched images with 3 dimensional subjects. (see
    http://russellspixelpix.blogspot.com/2007/06/tip-7-panoramas-on-cheap.html)

    2 dimensional subjects are different however, as the parallel camera
    movement is a technique used for many years when copying artworks.
     
    PixelPix, Jan 8, 2008
    #38
  19. Troy Piggins

    PixelPix Guest

    I hear crickets! lol
     
    PixelPix, Jan 9, 2008
    #39
  20. Troy Piggins

    Pete D Guest

    I hear crickets! lol

    Thats what happens after throwing yourself in front of a bus!
     
    Pete D, Jan 10, 2008
    #40
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