Photo chemicals and Alzheimer's Dementia

Discussion in 'Darkroom Developing and Printing' started by greyworld, Feb 7, 2004.

  1. greyworld

    jjs Guest

    We don't know in this case what the poster really does. What is a Mental
    Health Professional? Is it someone with a masters in counseling? Someone
    who runs an Aroma Therapy shop? In neither case do I see any strident
    requisites for scientific understanding.
     
    jjs, Feb 10, 2004
    #21
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  2. greyworld

    ? Guest

    I agree. I have not failed to notice that he/she has refused to identify
    his/her classification and education despite my two direct requests for such
    clarification.

    All we know for sure (because this is what he told us) is that he has
    responsibilities that include intake interviews. This means he can be
    educated at any level from high school to Ph.D. It could mean he is
    classified as a social worker with only a 4 year degree and one year out of
    college; or it could mean he is an MD psychiatrist with a 15 year practice.

    This leaves aside the fact that since "his" client is a
    darkroom worker, he or someone in his family could be reading this right
    now! How empathetic or professional is that?

    Are you now more or less willing to see a psychotherapist for help with your
    depression/alcoholism/ fear of abandonment/ whatever it is that ails you....
    knowing that your "mental health professional" may present your case for
    discussion on the Internet? And no, if it is done to you, you will not
    care that your name was not mentioned.

    By presenting himself as a "metal health professional", he has made himself
    appear as an authoritative figure. As such, his comments may carry undue
    weight for those who may be prone to searching for a reason for a loved
    one's disease.

    No, this message should never have been posted. It shows no empathy toward
    the family he describes, no concern for those darkroom workers who cared for
    loved ones with dementia, and least of all, it shows no understanding of how
    to
    systematically dissect a research question.

    Hence, I had HOPED it was a troll searching to create a new urban legend.
    Sadly, the poster assures us he is sincere in his post.

    --
    Regards,
    Dewey Clark http://www.historictimekeepers.com
    Ebay Sales:
    http://cgi6.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewListedItems&userid=dsc
    Restorations, Parts for Hamilton M21s, Products for Craftsmen
    Makers of Historic Timekeepers Ultrasonic Clock Cleaning Solution

     
    ?, Feb 10, 2004
    #22
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  3. greyworld

    MFHult Guest

    How quaint. "Datapoint" was a highly innovative computer terminal product line
    of Computer Terminal Corporation (CTC) that reigned during the waning years of
    the punch card. The Datapoint 2200 was one of the first products to
    successfully use the 8008 -- Contractor Texas Instruments *almost* gave up on
    it. Rest is history ...

    Do you recall that one data point is 'infinitely' more than none ?
    This rant reminds us of the Dark Ages when the same Wisdom of the Ancients was
    recycled for half a millennia.

    In the darkroom and in science, we learn by asking questions -- sometimes
    using formal hypotheses, sometimes not. But the notion that darkroom practice
    or science is advanced only by examining the literature is an outsider's
    notion of a creative process that in practice is far less constrained than
    most folks realize.

    FWIW, in my opinion, the OP's question is less a "mental health" question than
    an epidemiological one. And IMO, the epidemiology and health effects (real
    and/or imagined) of darkroom practitioners is squarely on-topic in this
    newsgroup regardless of participants' professional background.

    .... Marc
    Marc_F_Hult.
     
    MFHult, Feb 10, 2004
    #23
  4. greyworld

    jjs Guest

    Yes, that is a deeply disturbing fact, and we will probably have that
    problem as long as people can post without a qualifying identity. For that
    reason, everyone should consider Usenet a nonauthoritative source, or as I
    consider it by default - a well of potential misinformation and posing.

    I am glad you posted what you did. It is a daunting effort to confront the
    poseurs, but worthwhile.
     
    jjs, Feb 10, 2004
    #24
  5. greyworld

    ? Guest

    ?, Feb 10, 2004
    #25
  6. greyworld

    Guest Guest

    It could also be he is an attorney or some other kind of legal worker doing
    research for a lawsuit. An ambulance-chaser.
     
    Guest, Feb 11, 2004
    #26
  7. greyworld

    Some Dude Guest

    Highly doubtful.


    Cheers,
    -sd
    http://www.zoom.sh
     
    Some Dude, Feb 11, 2004
    #27
  8. greyworld

    Mike King Guest

    In research this type of "data" is called anecdotal (as in story telling)
    and is regarded as less that worthless. On the other hand if a hospital or
    insurance group noticed a correlation between hundreds of cases of
    Alzheimer's and exposure to darkroom chemicals that would be evidence.
    (Example would be Kodak's thousands of workers in their manufacturing plants
    and photofinishing labs over the last hundred (give or take) years.)
     
    Mike King, Feb 11, 2004
    #28
  9. Another correlative group would be workers in hospital X-ray processing
    labs: standing all day over large tanks of photochemicals with
    nitrogen gas bursts carrying vapor and droplets of chemicals all over
    hell and back.
     
    Nicholas O. Lindan, Feb 11, 2004
    #29
  10. greyworld

    dr bob Guest

    As a former nuclear/chemical engineer, I can assure you that x-ray
    technicians will be much more affected by radiation than the photographic
    chemicals used in developing film.

    Truly, dr bob.
     
    dr bob, Feb 12, 2004
    #30
  11. In the large labs I am familiar with the darkroom workers
    were separate from the techs taking the X-rays. Though
    in small clinics I imagine they may be the same person.

    Dentists and dental techs would be another group exposed
    to x-rays and B&W chems, not to mention vapors from nitrous
    oxide, halitosis and really septic teeth.

    It seems the worst one can get in a darkroom is a metol
    rash.
     
    Nicholas O. Lindan, Feb 12, 2004
    #31
  12. The trouble with being more or less anonymous is that one can say things
    to another that would not be said in a direct encounter.

    It seems to me that when someone asks a question, if you know the
    answer, or where to get it, you give the information. If not, there is
    no point in lecturing the questioner about the scientific method.

    Patrick A. Gainer
    Retired Aeronautical Engineer
    Former principal oboist of Norfolk Symphony Orchestra
    Father of 6
    Lost track of grand and great grand children.
     
    Patrick Gainer, Feb 27, 2004
    #32
  13. I got fed-up with the flame wars on r.p.* (and fed-up with my
    tendency to occasionally jump in an 'contribute') and started
    putting flamers into a kill file. When I look at the addresses
    in the file they are _all_ anonymous:
    ...

    Though the number of posts on r.p.d. drops from 40 to 11
    when the kill filter goes into effect, I have not seen a single
    singe and the groups are very civilized (and rather boring,
    truth be told).
    I am not sure what prompted this, but as my name is in the
    credits, and it is this or fix the squeak in the car....

    rec.photo.*, along with the rest of Usenet, is made up of
    _discussion_ groups.

    Asking a question prompts a discussion of the question:
    was it a good question?; has it been asked before?; was it
    ever answered?; how would one find the answer?; "I don't
    know anything about this, but...."; the habits, parentage
    and likely future of posters to date; and a splinter discussion
    about best time to photograph birds at QuickSand Island.

    Usually the only question answered correctly is about bird
    migrations.

    If I am looking for a simple correct answer to a
    straightforward question then I ask Google or go to the
    library and read a book or buy a good reference book.
    And I now have a large collection of bad reference books.

    In keeping with the above, I have a question:

    "What reference books and online used bookstores for purchase
    of same do the folks here recommend?"

    My modus operandi is to go to amazon for reviews and links
    and then query the local libraries. If I want to buy the
    book then I go to abebooks.com.

    My prime references are:

    Technical:
    The Kodak Darkroom and Photography Guides
    Kodak & Ilford data sheets and app. notes in a loose leaf binder
    Paper copies of useful usenet posts & web pages, also in a binder

    How to:
    Adams' Camera, Negative, Print ... series
    Adams' "The making of 40 photographs" to show many of
    his best pics had little to do with the Zone System.

    Inspiration:
    Edward Weston
    Bret Weston
    Walker Evans
    Cartier Bresson

    Can't find it:
    Google

    Want to chew the fat about it:
    rec.photo.*
     
    Nicholas O. Lindan, Feb 29, 2004
    #33
  14. greyworld

    Lifelong Photog

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2021
    Messages:
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    I've been a photographer since high-school, exactly 40 years ago. I processed only black and white. Yes, it was ventilated, sometimes better than others. Yes, I washed my hands and was careful.

    At age 49, I was diagnosed with mixed dementia, which has since been changed to Lewy Body disease (dementia and Parkinsonism) with Alzheimers. Alzheimer's shows more on my last PET scans from Mayo Clinic. Yes, so far, I'm mostly aware something is wrong, but its changing w/time.

    I never considered darkroom chemicals as the cause, but also didn't think about it, until tonight when i saw another young woman, locally, who had a career as a photographer, developed dementia and just died from covid.

    Studies have linked mercury, aluminum and pesticides to neurodegenerative diseases. We should at least study a possible connection to darkroom chemicals.

     
    Lifelong Photog, Jan 5, 2021
    #34
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