Photo editing software that mimic in-camera processing - is there anyavailable?

Discussion in 'UK Photography' started by aniramca, Mar 11, 2009.

  1. aniramca

    aniramca Guest

    I wonder if anyone can help me on this issue. In digital cameras, the
    images collected by the sensor are manipulated by the built-in
    software (the camera engineor processor) to develop a final image.
    What I am getting is whether this process can be done (or likely re-
    done) "outside" the camera afterward by image manipulation in a photo
    editing software. When you take a picture, you can take the image in
    manual mode (any combination of f/stop and speed, as long as it is not
    too extreme and becoming difficult to manipulate) and select the f/
    stop and the speed.

    My question is whether there is a photo editing software in the market
    today which can guide the user on changing the variation of the f/stop
    and speed as it is done in the camera as you automatically set the
    image when you take a picture. The EXIF data can tell you what f/stop
    and speed that were fired. Using these data, the software then can be
    manipulated by changing the speed and the f/stop of its combination.
    Example, the EXIF data indicated that the image was taken with F=
    5.600 and speed of 1/100 sec = 0.010 sec.
    Instead of graduating scales or scale 1 to plus or minus 200 when we
    manipulate the editing sofware, is there software that show the F/stop
    and speed and as you adjust the image, you do it by , say, typing the
    F=5.610 and speed is changed to 0.012 sec. Is there such a software?

    What I am aiming is about using a camera manually, and play around
    with combination of f/stop and speed outside. Perhaps this is
    typically common, but I have never seen a software with that method of
    adjusting the image. It would even mid boggling if the software can
    also reduce light or add light on portion of the image, so that you
    can play around with contrast and sensitivity. I am sure that this is
    done, as I have seen my old paintshop software, in which I can add a
    beam of light artificially at one, two or many corner... just like
    adding studio light in a real studio. Or even better, the software
    can start doing sharpening/focusing in the image like the way Nikon
    does the 51 point focusing or more. It this can be done, is there any
    need to get a fancy camera with all the gizmo, if you can just shoot
    the old fashion way (in the old days, an ASA 100 film usually has a
    small piece of paper with instruction to take shots at F/5.6 and speed
    of 1/100 on cloudy day and increase the speed to 1/200 on sunny day or
    something lake that)?. Then, everything else will be done in the
    computer at home. Is this too far fetched? That's the way I used to
    take photos with my dad's old german camera over 40 years ago and you
    do not play much with f/stop and speed combinations (except as shown
    in the film box instruction). You just want to make sure that you
    focus correctly.

    Just want to hear any of your comments. Thanks.
     
    aniramca, Mar 11, 2009
    #1
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  2. aniramca

    Ofnuts Guest

    Manipulating f-stop and speed after the fact is impossible. Choosing
    f-stop and speed is more or less making choices about what information
    you are going to lose (mostly things going out of focus with large
    apertures, or motion blur with low speeds). Once the picture is taken
    you can't re-invent the missing data.

    At best, one could imagine a stereoscopic view (because distance is
    important) with almost infinite depth-of-field, and a software acting on
    it simulating focus depending on aperture and focus distance.

    OTOH modern cameras support various "bracketing" modes, where the same
    picture is taken three times using different settings (usually, exposure
    (speed), or focus) and so that a composite image can be generated later
    (aka HDR for exposure).
     
    Ofnuts, Mar 11, 2009
    #2
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  3. aniramca

    ray Guest

    Are you talking about jpeg data or raw (my guess is the former)? You
    can't really do that much with a jpeg - limited dynamic range. You can do
    a lot more with raw data, though I'm not familiar with software that
    operates exactly as you describe.
     
    ray, Mar 11, 2009
    #3
  4. aniramca

    aniramca Guest

    Thanks for the responses and comments.
    I am trying to think "out of the box". It may not be a perfect
    simulation (or mimic or whatever you want to call).
    Could you imagine 20 years ago for a 64GB compact flash card? Or
    autofocus cameras that everyone seems cannot "live" without it
    nowadays? Or manipulating images without darkroom and chemical
    agents?
    I created all my HDR images using a single photo. Perhaps the quality
    is not as good as using bracketing technique to shoot 3 o5 exposure
    variation. However, I consider the result is good enough for me.
    Let assume that someone took a photo with f/1.9 and speed of 1/100
    sec. Produce the image in JPEG. Then let another person took the same
    exact spot, using a different camera, and say under-exposed with f/2.4
    and speed of 1/100 sec. Are you sure that he cannot produce an image
    in JPEG which has the same exposure as the other guy, using a photo
    editing software?
    I can understand that the blur or depth of field may be more difficult
    to handle, using any photo editing software. But, I am sure on general
    photos (as long as it is not too extreme - too dark or too much wash
    out), it may work?
    Just a kicker.... is it possible in the future that we may perhaps
    take a photo of a moment that has elapsed? It is impossible, isn't
    it? or is it? When you take photo of a star far away, the image is
    not what happened at the time when the shutter clicks. You are taking
    photo of the past! So, in fact this is already done as we speak.
     
    aniramca, Mar 11, 2009
    #4
  5. aniramca

    Nicko Guest

    It is impossible NOT to!

    When you take photo of a star far away, the image is
    Every time you take a photo you are doing that, however close far away
    the subject. Because light has a finite speed.

    Every time you look at something, you are seeing it as it was in the
    past. It might not be that far in the past, but it is indeed in the
    past. Not only is the speed of light involved, but also the speed of
    electrons and chemical processes, both in actually seeing something
    and recording an image of it.

    What is the mystery here?
     
    Nicko, Mar 11, 2009
    #5
  6. aniramca

    Rob Morley Guest

    On Wed, 11 Mar 2009 10:40:52 -0700 (PDT)
    ITYF the term is "outside the box".
    That's just a bigger faster version of technology that existed then.
    Autofocus was definitely available 20 years ago.
    That started in the 1980s too.
    Digital dodging and burning - all you're doing is enhancing the
    information that was captured in the available range, while "proper" HDR
    extends the available range and thus the amount of information captured.
    Depends on the nature of the image - the relative brightness of the
    darkest and lightest areas and the detail in those areas.
    If different exposures capture the full range of tones in an image then
    it will work, it's just the same as varying enlarger exposure and
    paper grade. But when the latitude of the recording medium is the
    limiting factor you won't get the same results no matter how much post
    processing you use.
    I'm typing this in the present, but when you read it it will be in the
    past. Spooky, eh?
     
    Rob Morley, Mar 12, 2009
    #6
  7. aniramca

    Pat Guest

    The technology to take a picture after it occurs already exists. It's
    just take someone to make a few camera mods.

    Take any shutterless camera -- such as a video camera. It is always
    recording info. Say you lag the writing by whatever instant you want,
    say 1/10th of a second. You look through the viewfinder and push the
    "shutter" button to take the picture. Instead of recording what you
    see it would be no more difficult to record the image from 1/10th of a
    second before. Bam. You have an image from before you pressed the
    shutter button. In fact, such an option would be very helpful in
    sports photography. Way too many people take a picture of the "big
    hit" as it is happening which translated into after it has happened by
    the time you react what you see. If you could go back in time 1/10th
    or 1/25 of a second they might get better pictures.
     
    Pat, Mar 12, 2009
    #7
  8. aniramca

    Charles Guest

    One can shoot RAW and eliminate many of those in-camera manipulations.
    Then, one has a lot of latitude in post-processing.
    Yes, it is built into the camera where it belongs. I am sure I am not
    understanding exactly what you are trying to do.

    Do you want your camera tethered to a computer while shooting? Might be OK
    for studio work, but would be a real PITA, generally speaking. There is a
    computer in your camera. To minimize its function, shoot Manual and RAW.
     
    Charles, Mar 12, 2009
    #8
  9. aniramca

    aniramca Guest

    If I am not mistaken, Olympus SP series has this technology, called "
    Pre-capture mode", in which the camera already records some frames
    seconds before you press the shutter button. I think the moment you
    aim and the frame and focusing are set, the camera already capture
    some images,...
    Check at the specs for Olympus SP-565 UZ or SP-590
     
    aniramca, Mar 13, 2009
    #9
  10. aniramca

    aniramca Guest

    Charles:
    Thanks for reading my post. I know that there are a lot of smart
    people in this world (excluding me!). What I am thinking about the
    "mimic" concept is a off- camera process using a photo editing
    software, in which the person can feel how a taken object, light,
    camera work together.
    No, I am not thinking about connecting the camera with a computer. I
    may not be a typical person when dumping a digital image into my
    computer. I always end up with play around with a photo software -
    crop, adjust image, contrast, sharpness, etc. These are all tools
    which is available in modern editing software. However, all of the
    buttons/operation that I use in the software is always a graduating
    scales or assigned number ( say -100 to 100) to adjust your image.
    Is there a software which has built-in program or simlation inside
    which can tell at any instant to change exposure, what value of f/stop
    or speed the image is changed to.
    When I pay around with exposure, gamma correction, brightness,
    contrast, etc.. sometime my final result is just identical with the
    original image.... but after all of the manipulation. If I used
    Microsoft photo editing, there is an automatic button for contrast or
    brightness that the software produce.
    I want to know if I change the exposure, what is the f/stop and/or
    speed combination that it now have.
    I hope this clarify my questions. The more I play around with this
    photo editing software, the more I am convinced that you can just shot
    one image (with one f/stop and one speed/exposure), and you can adjust
    it anyway you want it... to make it dark, to make it night shot, etc.
    I recall that in the old days, someone (or the film industry) shoot
    movies with dark blue (80A or 80B) in the middle of the day to
    simulate night photos. I took photos at dusk and can change it into
    daylight by gamma correction.
    Thanks for your reply!
     
    aniramca, Mar 13, 2009
    #10
  11. aniramca

    Pat Guest

    I don't think you quite understand some of the posts in this thread.
    Let me try to explain.

    Forget about your camera as capturing a picture. Think of it as
    capturing light. Now think of your sensor as just a series of
    individual meters that measure the light in their tiny little
    location. For the sake of argument, let's say that the brightest
    measurement can be 256 and the darkest can be 0. In a perfect world
    you would make it so the brightest spot in any image is exactly a 256
    and the darkest spot is exactly a 0. If something was brighter than a
    256, you could not differentiate it from a 256 and therefore you've
    lost the information (you have a burned out image). This is, in a
    nutshell, the old fashioned "Zone System".

    Unfortunately, this is not how a camera meter works. The camera looks
    at the reading of all of the meters and tries to average them to 18%
    gray. It doesn't care about highlight and low lights. Therefore it
    is very possible that your brights don't reach the 256 and your black
    is not down to 0. Therefore this is some latitude for adjusting
    things that you find in PS.

    Your ISO setting, for the most part, can adjust the sensitivity of the
    little light meters. But once that's set, the camera just goes for an
    average meter reading.

    Once the picture is taken you can adjust the ISO. You simple slide
    the brightness higher or lower. You can also adjust the contrast by
    adjusting the histogram. But everything else is physical and you
    can't change it afterwards. That is what the other posters are trying
    to say. You shutter speed is your shutter speed and their ain't no
    changing it.
     
    Pat, Mar 13, 2009
    #11
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