Plastic cameras and the dust issue (Nikon's findings)

Discussion in 'Nikon' started by RichA, Nov 27, 2006.

  1. RichA

    RichA Guest

    According to Nikon, they've begun a process whereby the shutter
    mechanism on each D80 is fired a few times prior to shipping the
    camera. The camera is then internally-cleaned to get rid of any
    particles left over from the machining process. Nikon contends that
    much of the dust issues in cameras can originate from this left over
    material from the manufacturing process rather than from exposing the
    camera briefly when changing lenses. Why? Because when it is drilled
    and machined, polycarbonate develops terrific static charges. These
    charges (unlike a metal body) cause filings, etc, to remain in the body
    even with post-fabrication cleaning. Further, for dust control during
    use, Nikon has moved the moire filter further out from the sensor to
    prevent static from this source.
     
    RichA, Nov 27, 2006
    #1
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  2. RichA

    Hebee Jeebes Guest

    Hmmm. Makes sense. But I don't know how that would make me feel. On one hand
    apparently all of these years Nikon had very poor quality control if they
    were sending out cameras with dirty insides. But, apparently it is important
    enough now to try and clean them out before sending out. Hmmm. I think I
    will go over an overall lack of quality control. Had they been doing a good
    job from the start they would have known that drilling and such would leave
    little bits in the camera. Only an idiot would think otherwise. Which means
    they just didn't care until it started costing them money it lost customers
    or warranty repairs, etc.

    R
     
    Hebee Jeebes, Nov 27, 2006
    #2
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  3. RichA

    Ken Lucke Guest

    Cue entry of RichA into the thread......
     
    Ken Lucke, Nov 27, 2006
    #3
  4. RichA

    Joan Guest

    After a few months I noticed 2 spots on my D50. I went back and
    checked my photos and found the spots were from the start. They're
    still there and they are still lonely after quite a few lens changes.

    --
    Joan
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/joan-in-manly

    : According to Nikon, they've begun a process whereby the shutter
    : mechanism on each D80 is fired a few times prior to shipping the
    : camera. The camera is then internally-cleaned to get rid of any
    : particles left over from the machining process. Nikon contends that
    : much of the dust issues in cameras can originate from this left over
    : material from the manufacturing process rather than from exposing
    the
    : camera briefly when changing lenses. Why? Because when it is
    drilled
    : and machined, polycarbonate develops terrific static charges. These
    : charges (unlike a metal body) cause filings, etc, to remain in the
    body
    : even with post-fabrication cleaning. Further, for dust control
    during
    : use, Nikon has moved the moire filter further out from the sensor to
    : prevent static from this source.
    :
     
    Joan, Nov 27, 2006
    #4
  5. RichA

    Celcius Guest

    Here we go again ................
    I guess there's no life after plastics.... polycarbonate or whatever...
    Rich, you seem to spend enormous effort and time researching the same
    trivia....
    During that time, I've enjoyed 3 great plastic cameras and actually take
    photos / souvenirs ;-)
    Marcel
     
    Celcius, Nov 27, 2006
    #5
  6. RichA

    RichA Guest

    Trivia? Not to some. I don't spend anytime researching this stuff.
    It appears from time to time to anyone doing any reading about cameras.
     
    RichA, Nov 27, 2006
    #6
  7. RichA

    jeremy Guest

    I got into photography at a time when plastic was not thought of in terms of
    having much quality. Plastic items were "cheap," like toys. Plastic was
    substituted for metal because it made items cheaper to manufacture, not
    because it was structurally superior. And the use of plastic generally did
    little to reduce the prices. Consumers paid the same and they got less.

    When one grows up with that view of plastic, it is no wonder that we remain
    opposed to plastic items throughout our entire lifetimes. And, yes, I
    realize that polycarbonate has advantages over metal in some areas. No
    matter. I'll hang on to my classic metal-bodies cameras and lenses for a
    few more decades. No offense to those that appreciate the quality of their
    plastic lens barrels. I just can't bring myself to get overly excited over
    plastic. I am fortunate in that I've accumulated just about everything I
    could want while it was still readily available. The supply of excellent
    metal stuff is shrinking, and there is very little coming into the pipeline
    as new.

    Every time I walk into a store and pick up a plastic film camera, I just
    shake my head and put it down. It must be a conditioned response. It is a
    pity that so many younger photographers have never had occasion to work with
    classic legacy equipment--the kind that could stand falling off of a chair
    and not cracking.

    http://www.photo.net/photo/old-slrs
     
    jeremy, Nov 27, 2006
    #7
  8. I had my D70 fall out of a Ford Explorer with no issue. Broke the lens hood,
    the camera did not have a mark and the 18-70 lens that was on it at the time
    survived unscathed as well. The PolyCarbonate bodies are pretty solid these
    days ... at least, the D70 body is.
     
    Thomas T. Veldhouse, Nov 27, 2006
    #8
  9. RichA

    Bill Guest


    But who really cares if the case cracks or dents? With any camera, be
    it film or digital, I'm MUCH more concerned with the inner components
    not becoming damaged from the impact, and metal cases don't seem to
    help.

    That's why I don't drop my cameras.

    :)
     
    Bill, Nov 27, 2006
    #9
  10. RichA

    Tom Ross Guest

    Are you saying that you merely regurgitate stuff you trip across? Are
    you saying you do not spend any time to determine the veracity of your
    posts? Says ... and explains ... quite a lot.

    I would be interested in your source for this Plastic, Dust, Nikon
    thread. I suspect you are leaving out something crucial.

    I have a hard time believing that test-firing the D80 is a new
    manufacturing step for Nikon. I would think that is and has always
    been a set in the overall QC process. Y'know, to make sure the darned
    thing works before it goes into the box.

    I also have a hard time believing that Nikon is using drilled and
    machined polycarbonate for its camera bodies when it would be much
    easier to mold. I have an even harder time believing that Nikon is
    having dust-related problems with static "cling" and not having
    problems with static discharge.

    TR
     
    Tom Ross, Nov 27, 2006
    #10
  11. Time spent posting about a "plastic vendetta" doesn't count?

    {The EMTs were valiantly trying to save his life but, to his horror, he saw
    plastic tubing over his shoulder and screamed "No, no I'd rather die!"}
     
    Charles Schuler, Nov 27, 2006
    #11
  12. RichA

    George K Guest

    If the crack, chip or hole in the shutter curtin allowed light on the
    film or sensor I would think you would be concerned. I would also be
    concerned if a break in the plastic cause any of the camera's lcds to
    malfunction. I always clean my cameras lenses before first use just ot
    get rid of any dust from any source and any fingerprints. I also use
    this time to carefully look over the camera bodies and lenses for
    anyother problems.
     
    George K, Nov 27, 2006
    #12
  13. RichA

    RichA Guest

    Came from Nikon at Photokina. I don't know if they issued a press
    release but think about it; You are about the only mfg. with no dust
    control system so you say that the dust comes from within the camera
    body and if you cycle the shutter and clean afterwards, the dust is
    eliminated. Kind of obviates the need in the perspective buyer's mind
    for a dust control system like Olympus, Canon, Sony, etc.
    It's tough to afford this kind QC step when the camera sells for under
    $1000.00.
    The static is only generated in the fabrication, not in the use.
    Except for the sensor, that is.
    I think Nikon has a good point. Mass-produces products like that are
    bound to have "tailings" in them. It's tough to get rid of it all, and
    expensive.
    -Rich
     
    RichA, Nov 27, 2006
    #13
  14. RichA

    RichA Guest

    The poster said "research" not posting. But you are right, if the
    camera companies decided to eliminate plastic to the greatest extent
    possible from their bodies, I'd cheer them.
     
    RichA, Nov 27, 2006
    #14
  15. RichA

    Ken Lucke Guest

    "And those paddles! The casings of them are made of... ::gasp,
    groan!:: PLASTIC!!!!! They might break if you run over them with the
    ambulance... Get them away from MEEEEEE!!!!!!!!"
     
    Ken Lucke, Nov 28, 2006
    #15
  16. RichA

    Tom Ross Guest

    Were you at Photokina? Did YOU speak to someone at Nikon about this?
    If the answer to either of these questions is 'No,' then please
    identify your source.

    A press release would be nice. Especially one that confirms your claim
    that Nikon has modified the D80 by moving the moire filter.

    Nonsense. Besides, if there is any truth to your post, Nikon is doing
    it now.
    I was talking about static generated during manufacture.
    Now you're just making up stuff. Large, attached tailings would/should
    be removed in the molding process, and an ultrasonic cleaner should be
    able to remove any lose material still clinging to the part.

    Or are you saying that Nikon's manufacturing process is lax?

    TR
     
    Tom Ross, Nov 28, 2006
    #16
  17. This just in...
    Generalissimo Francisco Franco: Still Dead.
    RichA: Still an Idiot.
     
    Brion K. Lienhart, Nov 28, 2006
    #17
  18. RichA

    RichA Guest

    A British photo mag report on Photokina. They had statements from all
    major mfgs on the state of their business, plans, etc.
    I haven't seen a press release. They probably wouldn't do one for such
    an "esoteric" change in design. More megapixels is what drives press
    releases.
    So pulling a body of a production line to test and clean it is
    costless? In what mass manufacturing environment is that the case?
    Reason they moved the moire filter, the sensor generates static when it
    is working.
    I've seen residual debris and dust in $100,000 machined aluminum
    aerospace products, it's not major reflection on QC unless it directly
    impacts the function of the product.
     
    RichA, Nov 28, 2006
    #18
  19. RichA

    RichA Guest

    Why raise you head out of the sand for that?
     
    RichA, Nov 28, 2006
    #19
  20. RichA

    Bill Guest

    Of course, which is why I said, "more concerned with the inner
    components" than the case.

    Obviously if you have a crack, chip or hole in the shutter curtains,
    you have a seriously damaged camera and the case is the last thing one
    would be worried about.
     
    Bill, Nov 28, 2006
    #20
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