Printing from Negative Film Vs. from Positive Film

Discussion in 'Darkroom Developing and Printing' started by tigresdelrio, Oct 9, 2006.

  1. tigresdelrio

    tigresdelrio Guest

    Is the process of printing from a negative similar to, or exactly the
    same as, printing from a positive?

    Thanks.
     
    tigresdelrio, Oct 9, 2006
    #1
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  2. tigresdelrio

    UC Guest

    Yes and no.
     
    UC, Oct 9, 2006
    #2
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  3. a écrit :
    They are similar in that you expose a surface and develop it but the
    type of surface and development differ.

    Positive processes are rare now as I don't think there are any
    commercial for B/W (it's possible to use DIY formulas) and, in color,
    only Ilfochrome remains (all manufacturers have abandoned concurrent
    R-3 processes).

    You should precise somewhat better what kind of information you're
    looking for.

    Claudio Bonavolta
    http://www.bonavolta.ch
     
    Claudio Bonavolta, Oct 9, 2006
    #3
  4. tigresdelrio

    beer Guest

    Claudio Bonavolta ha escrito:
    hi claudio
    i develop my slide with jobo system but the i have more difficult to
    buy ilfochrome product.
    i'd like to buy focomat v35 as enlarger for printing in cibachrome
    but, in italy , i do not find every ilforchrom supplier so the positive
    process is, for me , like a chimera.
    cheers,
    Emilio.
     
    beer, Oct 9, 2006
    #4
  5. tigresdelrio

    tigresdelrio Guest

    I apologize for I am a novice, and I am looking to learn more about
    photography, in general.

    But, in regards to my question about printing positive vs. negative
    film, I am looking for more information about producing a print from
    positive film. I have knowledge of how to produce a print from
    negative film -- using the enlarger, putting the paper in the baths of
    chemicals, etc.

    Is this the same process in producing a print from positive film --
    just with different chemicals? This answer may seem obvious to some of
    you, but I am learning by myself, and any insights are helpful and
    useful to me.

    Thank you.
    P.S. What is the R-3 process? Do any of you have informational
    photography websites I could peruse?
     
    tigresdelrio, Oct 9, 2006
    #5
  6. tigresdelrio

    UC Guest

    No, it isn't, and yes, it is.
     
    UC, Oct 9, 2006
    #6
  7. tigresdelrio

    Alfred T B Guest

    How is it the same and where does it differ?
     
    Alfred T B, Oct 10, 2006
    #7
  8. tigresdelrio

    syncopator Guest



    Google for Ilfochrome and Cibachrome. Here's a site with a description
    of some of what's involved:

    http://www.lightroom.com/lr_pages/ilfo_info.html


    I looked into it myself some time ago. Like processing color prints
    from negatives it takes temperature stabilized chemicals, but with
    Ilfochrome/Cibachrome it takes one extra bath-- so if you, for example,
    want to use a Nova slot processor you'll want to get the one with 4
    slots instead of the usual 3. Or if you use a Jobo tube system you'll
    do an extra chemistry step. It's probably possible to set up an
    automated processor to do it as well, if you got the $$$ but again,
    you'd have to find one with the requisite chemistry sections. Then you
    must hope that Ilfo won't discontinue the materials.

    The local Jr. College recently updated their darkroom and
    unfortunately, ripped out their Cibachrome lab-- just as I started
    taking some color classes there. Quite dissapointing as I wanted to
    get my hands wet with it a bit to see exactly what I would be in for if
    I were to try it in my home darkroom. There's probably folks on this
    newsgroup that have done it before though, if you can get their
    attention.
     
    syncopator, Oct 10, 2006
    #8
  9. beer a écrit :
    Hi Emilio,

    I know Ilfochrome distribution is still chaotic in Italy,
    unfortunately, I don't know who is the official distributor.
    If you're close to Switzerland, then you can order here from any shop
    (provided they want to). If not, try to go through mail-order or
    websites that sell it.
    There should be some in Europe (Germany or France):
    -
    http://www.nordfoto.de/shops/amateur_chemikalien_e_6_fuer_farbdiafilm.html
    - http://www.nightlight.fr/COULEUR.HTM
    - http://www.prophot.fr/rev/prophot?page=liste&groupe=3&famille=233
    - http://www.prophot.fr/rev/prophot?page=liste&groupe=2&famille=208
    Just a few addresses quickly found via Google, you may find cheaper
    prices in searching better than I did.
    Ordering from the US may be problematic due to the air restrictions for
    chemicals and shipment cost may be prohibitive. You can check with big
    shops like B&H (http://www.bhphotovideo.com).
    I prefer the CLM.1K surface which has the typical high-gloss surface
    and a medium contrast usable with moderate burn and dodge.
    Note there is a new chemicals kit P3.5 which is a 5 liters kit splitted
    in 1-liter internal packages. P-30 kits now means old chemicals ...

    Regarding the V35, it's a fine enlarger for Ilfochrome, but check it is
    in good shape with the genuine Focotar lens. I see regularly strange
    things on sale on eBay ...
    Its only drawback is its limitation to the 35mm format.

    Un salutone,
    Claudio Bonavolta
    http://www.bonavolta.ch
     
    Claudio Bonavolta, Oct 10, 2006
    #9
  10. a écrit :
    No problem, we all started one day ...
    I suppose you're talking B/W ?
    Basically, there are an inversion and re-development additional steps.
    I have a page on B/W slides that describes the general idea:
    http://www.bonavolta.ch/hobby/en/photo/slidesbw.htm

    One difficulty with positive slides is that they have a pretty high
    contrast.
    An usual B/W negative is pretty low in contrast, so the relative paper
    to print on should have a higher contrast to compensate.
    Your positive being high in contrast, using a paper having a high
    contrast too may give an excessive resulting contrast.
    To reduce the general contrast, you must use a very soft developer with
    low grades. Maybe it is enough to obtain a correct result. I can't tell
    you for sure as I've never tried it.

    Positive papers like Ilfochrome and their relative process have a
    natural low contrast to compensate the high contrast in the slide. When
    you hear that Ilfochrome gives to contrasty prints, it is the
    combination of the slide + the print that is still to contrasty.
    R-3 is a color positive process for prints that is (well, was)
    concurrent to Ilfochrome and meant to print color slides on paper.
    Contrary to Ilfochrome, it was a chromogenic process where the dyes
    were build up during the process, like in classic negative color paper
    (RA-4 process).
    Ilfochrome does contain all the dyes in the manufactured paper, the
    process selectively bleaches the "excessive" colors.
    I think (but maybe I'm wrong) all manufacturers have stopped their
    production of R-3 papers and chemicals.

    Claudio Bonavolta
    http://www.bonavolta.ch
     
    Claudio Bonavolta, Oct 10, 2006
    #10
  11. tigresdelrio

    Rod Smith Guest

    It's the same in broad strokes, but the details differ. One important
    difference is that increasing exposure makes a print from a negative
    darker, whereas it makes a print from a positive lighter. (Assuming you're
    processing to get a normal print, not a reverse-image print.) If you're
    talking about color prints, the effects of the filters will be reversed,
    too. For instance, increasing cyan filtration when making a color print
    from a negative makes the print more red (less cyan), but when making a
    print from a slide, increasing cyan filtration makes the print less red
    (more cyan).
    Don't worry too much about R-3; the paper and chemicals are no longer
    being manufactured, AFAIK. If you stumble across a stash of them, and if
    it's all still in date, you might be interested in buying it; but you're
    unlikely to find the stuff new in stores. I wouldn't recommend investing
    time in learning about R-3 unless it's just to satisfy your curiosity or
    if you find a bunch of R-3 supplies cheap. For making color prints from
    color slides, the only official process left is Ilfochrome (formerly known
    as Cibachrome).

    FWIW, although Ilfochrome is the only remaining "official" process for
    making prints from color slides, it's possible to make color prints from
    slides using conventional RA-4 paper. The process is to expose the paper,
    develop it in a conventional *B&W* developer (such as Dektol), put it in a
    stop bath, rinse the print, expose the print to light to fog it, and then
    proceed with the usual RA-4 process. The result isn't likely to match an
    Ilfochrome (or R-3, if you have some R-3 paper and chemicals) print for
    color accuracy and contrast, but you might want to play with the process.
    The print is likely to be high in contrast and some of the colors may be
    odd. The effect can be interesting for some shots.
     
    Rod Smith, Oct 11, 2006
    #11
  12. tigresdelrio

    Greg \_\ Guest

    I actually learned something here today. Thank you.
     
    Greg \_\, Oct 12, 2006
    #12
  13. tigresdelrio

    Tom Phillips Guest

    Careful. You'll start a trend, and then where
    would r.p.d be? Everyone exchanging mutual
    knowledge and actually learning something... ;^)
     
    Tom Phillips, Oct 12, 2006
    #13
  14. tigresdelrio

    Greg \_\ Guest

    This is one of the best rec photo groups, maybe because long ago
    I filtered the crack pots out.
     
    Greg \_\, Oct 12, 2006
    #14
  15. tigresdelrio

    Tom Phillips Guest


    Crackpots, or crack heads. Sometimes I wonder :)
     
    Tom Phillips, Oct 12, 2006
    #15
  16. tigresdelrio

    Lloyd Erlick Guest


    October 12, 2006, from Lloyd Erlick,

    That's no doubt true, but I think in reality
    the crackpot factor in this ng is fairly low.
    We get pretty bugged by it when it appears,
    though, no doubt about that, but still, it's
    minor.

    For a more entertaining crackpot view, check
    in on tor.general, supposedly a
    Toronto-centric newsgroup. Plenty of
    political, racist and personal invective,
    enough for all.

    regards,
    --le
    ________________________________
    Lloyd Erlick Portraits, Toronto.
    website: www.heylloyd.com
    telephone: 416-686-0326
    email:
    ________________________________
    --
     
    Lloyd Erlick, Oct 12, 2006
    #16
  17. tigresdelrio

    Greg \_\ Guest

    True I was mostly referring to the foul language users. I have most of
    the most basic stuff filtered from ever appearing.
     
    Greg \_\, Oct 12, 2006
    #17
  18. tigresdelrio

    Tom Phillips Guest

    Plus usually they seem to have the least substance
    to contribute. Such as (just catching up on my nsg
    reading here...)
    I don't know; can you use it to kill yourself if your prints turn out
    shitty?
     
    Tom Phillips, Oct 13, 2006
    #18
  19. tigresdelrio

    Greg \_\ Guest

    I don't know; can you use it to kill yourself if your prints turn out
    shitty?[/QUOTE]

    I don't know I 'd say there are quite few better darkroom chemistries
    to off one self. Isn't there a reason Amidol comes in a skull and cross
    bone package??? Maybe get some mercury and take a stab at fulminating
    it onto mirror glass :)
     
    Greg \_\, Oct 13, 2006
    #19
  20. tigresdelrio

    Tom Phillips Guest

    I don't know I 'd say there are quite few better darkroom chemistries
    to off one self. Isn't there a reason Amidol comes in a skull and cross
    bone package??? Maybe get some mercury and take a stab at fulminating
    it onto mirror glass :)[/QUOTE]

    Think I'd rather stand on a mountain top
    waiting for lightning to strike. I'd live
    longer ;)

    The above, of course, is from Nebenzahl
    (sig = "Save the Planet, Kill Yourself.")
    Typical...
     
    Tom Phillips, Oct 13, 2006
    #20
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