Problems with Fujichrome colour accuracy and film speed choice !

Discussion in 'Fuji' started by Steve, Nov 20, 2003.

  1. Steve

    Steve Guest

    I need a 200 asa slide film that will render colours as they were and give
    shadow detail. I found Kodachrome 200 prof slide film ideal but Kodak UK
    have withdrawn it and I am struggling ! The amateur version KL200 (not
    pre-aged) is coming back from the Kodak lab with a pink cast chemicals ok
    they say.
    So I try Fuji, but find only Sensia 200. Shooting Astia 100F, Velvia100F,
    Provia 100F at 200 asa and push processing loses detail in highlights
    looking at the Kodak greyscale card. It also darkens the exposure by 1 stop
    (or did the lab pull ?) Sensia 200 1/30 f8 matches these 1/30 f5.6 (same
    subject and lighting)
    I indicated they were 100asa films exposed on a 200asa setting.
    Velvia and Astia come near to giving me the colour of the Kodak colour
    cards, though the pastel shades on the card are better in the Astia. The
    Sensia was a little blue-green in cast and insipid, poor saturation. The
    Provia was too blue, much too blue !
    Astia is giving a slight green cast whilst velvia a slight reddish cast !
    Comparing Velvia and Astia in rendition of detail in shadows of an interior
    room photographed from the garden, for the same exposure, the Astia shows a
    little more detail, e.g can see a diference more between wall and chairs,
    newspaper more readable.

    The ideal is halfway between Astia and velvia but with no darkening of image
    by 1 stop when push processed by 1 stop after exposing it as 200asa !!!!!!

    One of the main reasons for 200asa is depth of field it gives me. I
    specialise in shots 'on the walk' as opposed to brollies (which are
    impractical at events) of scale aircraft models at events where colour
    reproduction is essential to capture the research and correct look of the
    camouflage. I use f16 for 1metre on a set flashgun discharge (as opposed to
    sensor controlled) so as to not have subject colour and distant background
    fool the sensor, especially when camera level with the subject and I get
    perfect results every time. I could expose at f11 knowing that I would get
    correct appearance after push processing, but may as well in that case buy
    100asa where f11 is correct for 1metre, but I need f16 for getting wingtips
    in focus with subject filling picture. Why not buy a more powerful flashgun
    then, because highlights would be too bright at the distance I photograph
    at, and moving back is impractical in a crowd of people, and then model
    doesn't fit picture, so I go over to telephoto, and lose depth of field
    !!!!!....you see, I need that 200asa.

    Its good for sport and action photography also, as well as low light, or pop
    concerts and so on, so why the lack of accurate colour 200asa in the year
    2003 ?

    Go digital ?, my slides give a very useful dark background beyond the
    subject due to flash fall off, does digital also do the same, I also like
    the depth of filed to just contain the model, what digital I have used
    sharpens well beyond that. Then there is the problem of puting on a slide
    show/digital pic show with mixed media ! I still believe you cannot better
    a nice slide projected onto a 4ft screen, and my hand held viewer using
    natural light is great for a quick one to one presentation, grab a few
    slides etc...versus scan the bloody things in and tweak the scans, crop and
    burn a cd, get a laptop and ...strewth !

    Thus I don't know what to choose !

    Not tried the Fuji 400asa, whats it like colour wise accuracy etc, and if it
    is a little grainy compared to these above, would exposing it as if 200asa
    and pulling 1 stop better the grain, and would it also go 1 stop darker.

    How can it be in this day and age that there is nothing to match Kodachrome
    200asa prof for colour accuracy ?

    SO WHAT FILM STOCK SHOULD I USE ?

    Steve
     
    Steve, Nov 20, 2003
    #1
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  2. Yes. And you can manipulate the contrast with software, so you can
    fine-tune the effect.

    I also like
    I can't argue with what you believe, but I think digital projectors do
    agreat job now. And you can put a slide show on a Web site, so it can be
    viewed by a larger audience.

    and my hand held viewer using
    By the time you get your slides processed, you could have done these tasks.
    When I was still using films, I preferred the color rendition of Fuji films
    over Kodak's. With a digital camera, you can control the colors, and aren't
    limited to what some manufacturer provides. You can control it in the
    camera, and by digital darkroom steps.
     
    Marvin Margoshes, Nov 21, 2003
    #2
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  3. Steve

    John Guest

    Have you tried to push Kodak E100 to 200asa?
     
    John, Nov 21, 2003
    #3
  4. Steve

    Norman Worth Guest

    I agree with you about Fuji films being a bit garish - sort of poster-like
    color. But that seems to be what's popular these days. It sounds like the
    Kodachrome 200 you got was stored improperly. IMHO Kodachrome has by far
    the most natural color rendition. You may want to try again with film from
    another source. The Kodak Ektachrome line is also a possibility. I think
    these films tend to be a bit blue, but they are closer to Kodachrome than
    the Fuji lot. E200 has moderate color saturation and contrast, so it may
    do. Its consumer cousin, Elitechrome 200, may also do. You might also
    explore the use of color compensating filters (CC) or light balancing
    filters to get the results closer to what you need.
     
    Norman Worth, Nov 23, 2003
    #4
  5. Thanks for suggestions so far.
    I have only shot one roll of Ektachrome 200 and found it totally
    blocked in on shadow detail, awful. Kodak say try again with another
    lab as it could be the lab, certainly I hope so as it was that bad I
    never touched a roll since !
    They also suggest EPN Ektachrome 100 and also E100G for colour
    accuracy, hope shadow detail is there. I gather its quite good from a
    pro friend who has used it on black steam trains. Another option
    available is to purchase from the USA the Kodachrome PKL 200 and be
    back up and running instantly !
    200 asa is so useful, added d.o.f, dull light ability. I'd rather have
    focus than grain subtlety if thats what was the deciding factor in
    ditching the 200asa ranges. Shooting at the weekend scale models
    where f16 is borderline useful for d.o.f and now having to choose f11
    hurts ! (decided against push processing as a white hawker sea
    hurricane with subtle fading of its white and grime would have not
    looked good, the kodak cards showed first few steps greyscale all
    white with push ! Cloud detail would be bad also.

    Slides so handy, I was able to quickly show someone a few shots in a
    sunlit carpark with a handheld daylight lit viewer, else it would have
    been get out the laptop, boot up, etc ...and try to shield the screen,
    or find a shady spot, perhaps sit in car ! ...takes longer !

    Is there a good website where visual results of tests on films are
    shown ?

    Steve
     
    envirographics, Nov 24, 2003
    #5
  6. The problem with Kodachrome is that it cam not record pastel
    shades of any color. Ekatchrome and Fujichrome have the
    ability to record pastel shades of color. The processing
    labs play a BIG part in the results. Find a good pro lab,
    not a local Drug store and work with them. You may have to
    +expose by a 1/2 stop of so but you have to find a lab that
    is consistence before you can work out the problems
    message
    Thanks for suggestions so far.
    I have only shot one roll of Ektachrome 200 and found it
    totally
    blocked in on shadow detail, awful. Kodak say try again
    with another
    lab as it could be the lab, certainly I hope so as it was
    that bad I
    never touched a roll since !
    They also suggest EPN Ektachrome 100 and also E100G for
    colour
    accuracy, hope shadow detail is there. I gather its quite
    good from a
    pro friend who has used it on black steam trains. Another
    option
    available is to purchase from the USA the Kodachrome PKL 200
    and be
    back up and running instantly !
    200 asa is so useful, added d.o.f, dull light ability. I'd
    rather have
    focus than grain subtlety if thats what was the deciding
    factor in
    ditching the 200asa ranges. Shooting at the weekend scale
    models
    where f16 is borderline useful for d.o.f and now having to
    choose f11
    hurts ! (decided against push processing as a white hawker
    sea
    hurricane with subtle fading of its white and grime would
    have not
    looked good, the kodak cards showed first few steps
    greyscale all
    white with push ! Cloud detail would be bad also.

    Slides so handy, I was able to quickly show someone a few
    shots in a
    sunlit carpark with a handheld daylight lit viewer, else it
    would have
    been get out the laptop, boot up, etc ...and try to shield
    the screen,
    or find a shady spot, perhaps sit in car ! ...takes longer !

    Is there a good website where visual results of tests on
    films are
    shown ?

    Steve
     
    Boots Crofoot, Dec 2, 2003
    #6
  7. Follow up on my ans before. When I was in the studio I only
    shot Ektachrome from 35 to 8x10 and found it to be the best
    thing going
    I agree with you about Fuji films being a bit garish - sort
    of poster-like
    color. But that seems to be what's popular these days. It
    sounds like the
    Kodachrome 200 you got was stored improperly. IMHO
    Kodachrome has by far
    the most natural color rendition. You may want to try again
    with film from
    another source. The Kodak Ektachrome line is also a
    possibility. I think
    these films tend to be a bit blue, but they are closer to
    Kodachrome than
    the Fuji lot. E200 has moderate color saturation and
    contrast, so it may
    do. Its consumer cousin, Elitechrome 200, may also do. You
    might also
    explore the use of color compensating filters (CC) or light
    balancing
    filters to get the results closer to what you need.

    message
    exposure by 1
    stop
    shadows of an
    interior
    the Astia shows
    a
    darkening of
    image
    discharge (as opposed
    to
    that I would
    get
    low light, or
    pop
    you cannot
    better
    the scans, crop
    and
    accuracy etc, and if
    it
     
    Boots Crofoot, Dec 2, 2003
    #7
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