Pshop asks: "Do you want to use the embedded profile?"

Discussion in 'Photoshop' started by Robert Montgomery, Nov 21, 2011.

  1. I recently learned that the Pro Photo color setting is better than the
    sRBGIEC61966-2.1 color setting that I've been using for most of my
    files, so I set up a new Pro Photo color setting.

    This has caused a problem: Every time I open a Photoshop image, a
    window first opens that asks if I want to use the embadded profile
    (sRGBIEC61966-2.1, or to convert the color setting to the working
    setting, which is Pro Photo.

    The window shows that the radio button is on the setting for the file
    being untagged, so I have to click on the button to choose the embedded
    profile.

    What can I do to avoid this annoyance, and still benefit from the wider
    gamut that Pro Photo will provide for my new pictures?

    Robert
     
    Robert Montgomery, Nov 21, 2011
    #1
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  2. I just solved the problem; I had forgotten to quit Pshop and reopen it
    to activate the new settings.

    Robert
     
    Robert Montgomery, Nov 21, 2011
    #2
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  3. Robert Montgomery

    Savageduck Guest

    ProPhoto certainly gives you a wider gamut than Adobe RGB or sRGB.

    There are a few things one should consider when making that choice when
    editing in Photoshop.
    Most important consideration is going to be your output. Are you
    working towards a print, or are you only going to have the resulting
    image viewed on a display. What have you done to ensure color matching
    the work on your display to a standard output for display? or matched
    with a printer & paper profile.
    For the most part any editing you do in ProPhoto colorspace will have
    to be coverted to sRGB for consistent display or printing on most
    printers. For some print work you might be required to use CMYK.

    What you are experiencing is a conflict in the default colorspace you
    have set and what the you are being queried on when making saves. If
    you are confident with what you are actually doing, you should be able
    to get rid if the annoying warnings and requests to make a choice.

    Go to Edit-->Color Settings

    This will open the Color Settings dialog.
    In the center section "Color Management Policies" you will/should find
    two option lines and three "check boxes".
    1: "Profiles Mismatches" with choices "Ask when opening" & "Ask when pasting"
    You can have any of these checked or unchecked.

    2: "Missing Profiles" has one check box.

    < http://homepage.mac.com/lco/filechute/ColorSettings.jpg >

    I have chosen to have all of the warnings disabled. When I open RAW
    files from ACR they open in CS5 using ProPhoto. Once I have completed
    my work on that particular image I have created an action which adds a
    border, converts from 16-bit mode to 8-bit, and converts the color
    profile from ProPhoto to sRGB, which is what I need for my Epson R2880
    and display of any images I might share online, ending up with results
    along these lines.
    < http://homepage.mac.com/lco/filechute/DSC_1726Gws.jpg >
     
    Savageduck, Nov 21, 2011
    #3
  4. Your Epson R2880 certainly does not 'need' sRGB, on the contrary. Providing
    that you know how to use color managment for printing, your printer will
    benefit from a larger color space, such as AdobeRGB or even the ProPhotoRGB
    you now start with. Don't think that ProPhotoRGB is 'too big' for your
    printer. That is what color management is for. But a color space that is
    already too small (and sRGB is indeed too small for this printer), will
    give sub-optimal results, with or without color management.
     
    Johan W. Elzenga, Nov 22, 2011
    #4
  5. Robert Montgomery

    Savageduck Guest

    Perhaps "need" was a poor choice of words, since I use what gives my
    workflow/hardware good results. Sometimes that means working in 16-bit
    ProPhoto PSD/TIF, sometimes sRGB, 8/16-bit JPEG/PSD.

    Where my workflow is going to result in a file for printing, usually my
    paper selection is going to determine some of my actions. Many of those
    image files are only retained as 16-bit, ProPhoto PSD's
    I maintain a calibrated display. I mainly use Red River paper for my
    final prints, I use the Red River custom profiles for those papers.
    Prints made on their Polar Pearl Metallic and UltraPro Gloss papers, I
    usually only print from 16-bit, ProPhoto files. With only a few being
    printed from sRGB jpeg files. The Metallic papers are quite critical
    when it come to getting good print results, even on the R2880. Not all
    images present well on Metallic papers.
    When I use their UltraPro Satin 2.0, Polar Matte, 60lb Linen I usually
    print from sRGB 8-bit JPEGs. (Here is where I have my only complaint
    with the R2880, having to swap out Photo Black & Matte Black inks).

    I can say, so far I have yet to be disappointed with any of the prints
    produced on the R2880. I cannot say the same for the Canon i9900 it
    replaced. That was a printer which promised plenty, but was never
    consistent, and was always disappointing in some way.
     
    Savageduck, Nov 22, 2011
    #5
  6. Both.

    What have you done to ensure color matching the

    I've calibrated my monitor.

    or matched with a
    In File > Print > Printer, I've selected the applicable printer (I have
    two Epson inkjets.)

    In File > Print > Print Settings, I've chosen Color Settings > Epson
    Color Controls, and

    In Print Setings > Media Type > I choose Watercolor Paper Radiant White
    for Lyve canvas or Enhanced Matte for Somerset Velvet paper, and

    In View > Proof Setup, I check Lyve canvas or Somerset Velvet paper, and

    in View > Proof Colors, I've put a check mare, and

    In View, Gamut Warning, I've put a check mark.

    I'm printing only on my two Epson inkjet printers.
    Okay. I got that part.

    Thanks. Robert
    When I open RAW
     
    Robert Montgomery, Dec 1, 2011
    #6
  7. Robert Montgomery

    Savageduck Guest

    OK! Though you should be able to print satisfactorily of your Epson
    printers I qualify that by asking which Epson printers you are talking
    about.

    ....and while all you need for file resolution for screen display is
    72ppi, 240-300ppi is going to be preferred for printing. I seldom go to
    72ppi if the file I am using is going to serve both purposes. If the
    display file is going to be resized considerably smaller than the print
    size I will consider changing to 72ppi from 300ppi and in sRGB, you
    will not see the difference on a display.

    So given my usual practice I have an image I worked on in ProPhoto RGB,
    16-bit and ended up with a final print size of 21.28MB 4950x3353 @
    300ppi in 16-Bit ProPhoto RGB usually save as a PSD. That lets me print
    large on 19x13 paper, and if I want to I can obtain much larger
    commercial prints. To save that as a JPEG I have to go to 8-Bit.

    The JPEG file I produced for display viewing is about 260KB 867x1280
    @300ppi in 8-Bit sRGB and quite simply open in a browser. That is the
    image I shared in the post you responded to and can be found by
    clicking on the link at the bottom of this lengthy missive.
    It would be good to know models.
    If you have done your work well, the gamut warning is only going to go
    haywire if you set the Rendering Intent to "Absolute Colorimetric".

    When making my final prints I rarely have the Match Print Colors &
    Gamut Warning boxes checked.


    ....and there it is going to be a matter of whether you are using custom
    paper/printer profiles for Photoshop to control, or if you are letting
    the Epson driver handle things.

    Since I am using Red River Papers, my current favorite being Polar
    Pearl Metallic, I use their custom profiles for my R2880 and Manage
    Colors.
    I will usually have the Rendering Intent set to "Perceptual" and only
    occasionally use "Relative Colorimetric"

    Fine. That makes thing simple.
    ....and there is the image of which I wrote.
     
    Savageduck, Dec 1, 2011
    #7
  8. Horsepuckey!

    The resolution setting in the image has NO, repeat -=NO=- affect upon the
    screen.

    All it cares about is PIXELS!

    Some stupid programs try to read and 'size', but then that's the fault of
    the user/programmer for misuseing the tag!
     
    Sir F. A. Rien, Dec 1, 2011
    #8
  9. Robert Montgomery

    Savageduck Guest

    Agreed. ...and if you reread what I wrote, you should see that I said as much.
    Always.
     
    Savageduck, Dec 1, 2011
    #9
  10. I'm printing with my Epson Stylus Pro 7600 and Epson Stylus Pro 2400.
    Epson 7600 and 2400.
    This is something that confuses me. In View > Proof Setup > Custom, with
    Device to Simulate set to sRGBIEC6196602.1, for example, (or Pro Photo)
    the default rendering intent is Relative Colorometric. But when I go to
    File > Print > Rendering Intent is set to Perceptual. I assume that
    Perceptual takes precedence, but I don't know.
    In File > Print > Color Handling, i have set it to Printer Manages Color.

    And in File > Print > Print Settings, I have set Color Matching to
    Epson Color Controls.

    But I find that when I start with RAW files I can't apply filters to
    them because they're in 16-bit mode. If I convert the files to eight-bit
    mode, then the advantage of the wider gamut provided by ProPhoto is
    lost, so It appears that Pro Photo is useless, because I rely those
    filters to alter my pictures.
    Nice picture of a nice plane!

    Robert
     
    Robert Montgomery, Dec 14, 2011
    #10
  11. Robert Montgomery

    Savageduck Guest

    I guess you intend to print BIG with that 7600!

    Both are printers which should give you great results

    You are aware that there are ink differences between those two printers
    and you are probably going to get slightly dissimilar results with the
    same print job on each.
    See my comment above.
    Both "Perceptual" and "Relative" Colorimetric should give you
    satisfactory results, however I find "Perceptual" a little more
    forgiving and in most cases gives me my best results.

    "Relative" will shift to the nearest output value for the destination
    color space when out of gamut. This is useful when there are color
    space differences between source and destination., but sometimes the
    results can make you wince.

    "Absolute" has yet to find itself into my regular print work flow, as I
    have always found the results to be nasty. I could be, and probably am
    wrong but that is my experience.

    "Saturation" is really not appropriate for photograph reproduction,
    unless you are trying something bizarre. Leave this for business
    graphics.

    Why would you have the printer control color matching if you are using
    PS profiles, and you have done all your work in PS with your calibrated
    display, only to have the printer undo what you were trying to get
    right?
    I always have Photoshop manage colors.

    Then the time might have come to invest in some third party filters
    which will work in 16-bit, or make the compromise to work in 8-bit
    Adobe RGB/sRGB. I think you will find that the wider gamut is not that
    significant an advantage.

    ....and can you actually tell the differences between the 16-bit
    ProPhoto and the 8-bit RGB/sRGB for what you intend. Remember there is
    nothing stopping you from moving back to 16-bit mode and ProPhoto once
    you have completed your 8-bit work.

    Personally I think you are chasing a concept of "something better"
    which is not going to give you the "superior" results you anticipate by
    the using the wider gamut.

    Just my 2¢.
     
    Savageduck, Dec 14, 2011
    #11
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