Raw Convertors

Discussion in 'Digital Cameras' started by Eric Stevens, Jul 29, 2009.

  1. How *do* you define civilization, and how 'more civilized'?

    The idea of what is civilized and what is not has certainly changed over
    time. Most people would agree that the Romans were a great civilization.
    Most people would also agree that slavery is a very uncivilized
    barbarism nowadays, despite the fact that slavery was a key component in
    Roman civilization.

    It also depends on which culture you are talking about. Different world
    cultures have a very different view about what constitutes

    If we are talking about the western view of civilization, then ....

    I'd agree, at some point, actually pretty early, written language became
    a criterion for "civilized".

    Other criteria that eventually became important are e.g. organizing
    societies beyond the family or tribe, i.e. into towns and eventually
    nations or formalized laws and a formal judicial system.

    In more recent times, i.e. in the past few centuries, personal liberties
    became part of the list:
    - abolishment of slavery, servitude, corporal punishment, and torture
    - due process in a court of law
    - civil rights including equality regardless of ancestry, gender, race
    or religion
    - freedom of speach
    - and in the second half of the last century the abolishment of the
    death penalty.
    The latest criterion in that line would probably be equality for LGBT.

    A very important part of "being civilized" in today's world is the
    primate of negotiations over the use of physical force. This applies on
    the level of an individual person (important: state monopoly on
    violence) as well as between countries. Attacking or interfering with
    the internal affairs of a foreign sovereign country, no matter how
    small, is considered very uncivilized today. Same goes for not
    respecting international treaties or international organizations who's
    purpose is to eliminate or reduce violance like the UN, the
    International Court of Justice, or the numerous protocols on "civilized"
    warfare etc.

    Jürgen Exner, Sep 1, 2009
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  2. Forgot one more area: the social responsibility of people for each other
    has become a major criterion in the past 150 years, too, e.g. public
    health care, unemployment and work accident aid, organized retirement
    funding, support for the underpriviledged, etc.

    Jürgen Exner, Sep 1, 2009
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  3. Even with OE it's trivial to avoid this ... but that ignoramus
    wants to tell the world that other people manually *want* to
    tweak their software to perfom in the same, suboptimal way.

    Wolfgang Weisselberg, Sep 1, 2009
  4. Yep, if you need something now and expect money later ... but
    why not take out a loan in that case? You're not sure you'll
    get the money? So you'll have spend all your free money for
    a broken tool?

    Then that must be a skill I won't be able to learn.
    The 4 R's of Windows: Retry, Restart, Reboot, Reinstall.
    So? If you use a tool, you take over the responsibility for
    the outcome. If I use a hammer and smash your finger with
    it, what will the judge say to "That's the hammer"?
    It's easily avoided, by one simple setting. And if that's a
    feature, Microsoft produces only washing machines.
    Nope --- completely wrong again.
    Firefox is also not an improved Internet Exploder.

    Your basic thinking flaw is making Windows your golden standard,
    and thinking everything must be a flawed or improved version of it.
    Is a (glass) window an improved or a retarded version of a door?
    You *can* enter a house through both, so it *must* be some
    version of a door, right?
    "So in theory an airship should be an improved version of a
    NASCAR racer, but it doesn't quite make it, does it?" Sounds
    ridiculous, doesn't it? So airships are bad and everyone
    should use a NASCAR racer to build a house ...
    Nope, they pull out their hair.

    Irrelevant, you can dodge taxes too, sometimes even legally.
    So people like being owned by Microsoft, that's what you say?

    And to city administrations, and so on.
    Microsoft has been in court more often than most serial
    lawbreakers, but somehow they're intouchable. The law
    doesn't apply to them, they probably own enough politicians
    and parts of the US law system.
    Does MS ever pay? About never. Probably if they were forced too
    hard, some secret backdoors would be used to smack down offending

    Wolfgang Weisselberg, Sep 1, 2009
  5. Normally doesn't cut it, and by that measure surely the Asian
    people with their many-thousand character alphabets versus
    our 20-odd characters are many hundred times more civilized.

    Were the Aborigines in Australia barbarians or were they maybe
    civilized, even lacking a written language?
    You could just as easily define "civilisation" to have organized
    mass slave sales, as the Romans did have them and I don't think
    their Germanic (!= German) opponents had them "organized" or

    Do you really think, btw., 2000 years from now there will be written
    records of our time? What's not lost as electronic data will
    be burned by the equivalent of 2 World Wars and the 30 year's
    war and so on and so on and so on. We don't write on
    leather or metal or clay slabs any more, at most you'll find
    some coins and some names on tombstones ...
    View of the day.
    True, but of utterly no interest to your typical Roman (or
    Greek) in that day. Just as much interest as asking the average
    person today which tribes exactly destroyed Varus. They might
    discriminate between dangerous, harmless and romanized barbarian
    (like Arminius), though.
    Do you think they'd call themselves 'babarians', if you went
    back and asked them? I mean, before hacking you up for not
    showing proper respect and all that?
    Obviously. That's why I'd chosen the wording.
    Now look up where that "all Greek" comes from.

    Wolfgang Weisselberg, Sep 1, 2009
    Wolfgang Weisselberg, Sep 1, 2009
  7. Of course, and for the simple elegant clarity of its language the item
    of the extensive Latin written corpus most likely to be read by
    schoolchildren studying Latin. You seemed to be claiming that the
    Romans lacked their own written language.
    Archaological evidence is not required. We have their own words in the
    very considerable corpus of surviving Latin literature from Roman
    times. Of course they sometimes communicated among themselves in
    Greek. They used Greek slaves a lot, often in positions which required
    educated skills, such as acting as tutors to the children of the upper
    classes. So for many of the educated upper class Romans Greek was a
    familiar high status second language, much as French and German were
    in Britain. Within living memory a British university degree required
    a foreign language, usually French or Latin, and proficiency in German
    was a requirement for a scientific degree.

    This use of Greek by the Romans is described in their own Latin
    writings available today in the original and in translation in any
    good academic library, and today on the Web.
    Chris Malcolm, Sep 1, 2009
    Wolfgang Weisselberg, Sep 1, 2009
  9. Shifting goalposts again? And getting abusive, too?
    Don't like the fact that you *can* buy a computer with Linux
    preinstalled? Poor Davy-duck.
    Why don't you start to learn reading?
    So you don't like reading?
    Where exactly is your problem?
    Dell doesn't offer what they want.
    You assume I care about Windows or Dell. You are wrong.
    It's obviously too potent for you.

    Wolfgang Weisselberg, Sep 1, 2009
    Wolfgang Weisselberg, Sep 1, 2009
  11. It's called "free speech", not "forced listening".
    Logic is not your strong point.

    Nope. So it was not wanted by the people. QED. At least
    that's your logic.

    Wolfgang Weisselberg, Sep 1, 2009
    Wolfgang Weisselberg, Sep 1, 2009
  13. Ah, that one must be you. Now I understand you.

    Wolfgang Weisselberg, Sep 1, 2009
  14. So they learn the useful skill of backup and restore.
    I've done it ... as a novice.
    Your point?
    There is no "Linux" the way there is an MS. That's a good thing.
    Tell that to the companies who make a living with Linux.
    Tell them there's no profit in what they do.
    Tell them to already wither and die as you order things to be.

    Wolfgang Weisselberg, Sep 1, 2009
  15. If that's the quality of validation you show in business, you
    must have really good marketing.

    If it isn't, you're doing a shoddy job here.

    Wolfgang Weisselberg, Sep 1, 2009
  16. Ah, yes.
    But your image of a comb with broken tooths is slightly out
    of focus.

    Wolfgang Weisselberg, Sep 1, 2009
  17. Eric Stevens

    Walter Banks Guest

    Free to do anything you want as long as you abide by the terms of
    the GPL license. What does the fine print say?

    Walter Banks, Sep 1, 2009
  18. Eric Stevens

    Chris H Guest

    Nothing to do with marketing Just accepted by the certification houses
    on real project.

    Nothing that has been shown in this thread so has in any way show that
    Gcc is properly tested. All I have seen is bitching and carping that the
    the people who write the ISO standard and the industry accepted test
    suits are wrong. That the internationally accepted test houses are
    wrong... in fact everyone who does not think GCC is good (with no
    empirical evidence to back up the claim) is wrong.

    Most people get out of that form of arguing when they reach adolescence.
    Chris H, Sep 1, 2009
  19. Eric Stevens

    Chris H Guest

    Walter that is cheating :)

    To the rest of you PLEASE don't take the bait. Walter knows lawyers who
    have been through the fine print on GPL2 and GPL3 . It isn't pretty.
    Chris H, Sep 1, 2009
  20. Eric Stevens

    Chris H Guest

    Walter Give up.... Floyd is not in the real world. If you want a real
    laugh just look at the standard of source code on his web site.
    Chris H, Sep 1, 2009
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